I had an interesting evening the other night. I met with a group of people who were not like me. They were Homosexuals, Lesbians, and Transgenders. Had we met for a dinner party, or for some other social event, I would have hardly noticed the difference but we met to talk about the problems faced by them.

They were nice people. I did not feel threatened or uncomfortable. I was made to feel welcome. However, I did feel a bit sad as I listened to the stories they had to tell. Stories about injustices that they had suffered, also the physical threats and attacks. The first thought that came to my mind was, why would someone choose to be as they are? The answer is simply. No one would! They did not choose to be as they are, they just are - and they suffer for it at our hands! In a way, I could relate to them. I am Buddhist. I have had people shun me because of it. It is a minor thing, compared to their sufferings, but I could relate.

I am now going to talk to Black people. At one time in this country you were shunned by the establishment because you were different. You suffered injustices. You, of all people, should have a warm heart to those who are thought to be different. You know what it is like, and it stinks!

As I sat there I wondered WWJD? (What would Jesus do?) He would have embraced them. A man, with as warm a heart as his, could do nothing else. Judged them? I doubt it. He may have given his opinion but he still would have loved them and condemned those who persecuted them.

I opened this posting by saying that they were not like me. The truth is they are like me. They get up in the morning and brush their teeth, they go to work. They worry about money. They pay the same taxes as anyone else. They love their families. They get tired. Their feet hurt! They sweat when it is hot and shiver when it is cold. They cry when sad, and laugh at a good joke. They are human beings. The only difference is their sexual lives, which is really a small part of life, and like the heterosexual, is done behind closed doors and is no ones' business. Yet, because of that difference we feel justified in despising them.

As the meeting ended, I felt the need to do something that I seldom do with people who are not Buddhist or Hindu, as people from other traditions seldom understand it. It is to place the hands together in front of ones face (as if one was about to pray) to bow ones head slightly, and to say, "Namaste." (Pronounced, na ma stay.) It means, to pay homage, or respect, to the inner light (call it God if you like!) in all living beings. I had a feeling these people needed that sign of respect from a "straight" person. They did indeed have that inner light. I wanted them to know it. They ALL returned the blessing. It was wonderful.

So, to those who were at the meeting, Namaste! To all of those who read this, if you agree or not, Namaste! Because we all have that inner light. Let it shine!!!!

It means, to pay homage, or respect, to the inner light (call it God if you like!) in all living beings. I had a feeling these people needed that sign of respect from a "straight" person. They did indeed have that inner light. I wanted them to know it. They ALL returned the blessing. It was wonderful.

So, to those who were at the meeting, Namaste! To all of those who read this, if you agree or not, Namaste! Because we all have that inner light. Let it shine!!!!

I agree CG.

Hi CG:

Yours is quite a moving piece. My heart sincerely goes out to ALL people who are treated in inhumane ways like verbal abuse, physical attacks and threats.

I don't know what other forms of abuse that might have been mentioned at the dinner party but it has been my experience that those who are a part of supporting the homosexual cause tend to label ALL who do not support their views and agenda as being hateful, homophobic and abusive. I believe homosexuals and those who wish to pursue unions other than heterosexual ones should be allowed to do so without hindrance. However, I do not believe that the state should provide any form of legal accommodation (marriage, domestic partnerships, civil unions etc.) for those unions. For this I am called hateful, homophobic and abusive. But am I? I also do not support adultery and fornication and do not feel that we should pass laws to try to “normalize” the conduct of those who commit these acts. Do I hate, fear and abuse them as well? I am not bothered by those slanderous and abusive terms (hateful and homophobic) because they are not true. I love ALL people and do not abuse them.

On another note, with sincere due respect, your comparison of the discrimination of blacks to that of homosexuals is faulty. There are many points to be made on this but I'll only make two.

1. Nobody can successfully dispute the fact that skin colour is NOT a matter of personal choice and cannot be changed. In other words, it is irrefutable that a person is born with a certain skin colour determined prior to birth that they did not choose. However, NOBODY can prove that sexual orientation is NOT a matter of personal choice. How do we know? Simple: The debate about it continues and I think we all know that if evidence existed to prove that sexual orientation is a matter of birth and not choice, those who support the homosexual cause would have brought the evidence forth long ago and the debate would have been over long ago.

2. While we have never seen anyone testifying about changing their skin colour, we have an inordinate amount of persons who publicly testify of having changed their sexual orientation from deviant forms to heterosexuality. I can point you to some very public persons who have renounced homosexuality and other deviant forms of sexuality if you wish. I know of none who have changed their skin colour.

Anyway, aside from the black discrimination comparison part, thanks for the excellent piece!

....Anyway, aside from the black discrimination comparison part, thanks for the excellent piece!

Thank you for your reply and your kind words.

My illustration was only to point out that discrimination, no matter to whom it is aimed or for whatever reason, is hurtful, nothing more. It hurts the one who receives it as well as the one who gives it. Those who have suffered it know what I mean.

CG:

The word discrimination is a broad brush now adays. The groups protesting the extradition of persons to the USA to answer to drug charges are also citing discrimination.

While not allowing persons of the same sex to enter legal unions is indeed discrimination, it is NOT discrimination in the way that blacks were discriminated against. Blacks have no other choice but to be black. Same sex persons can still enjoy their same sex relationships minus the legal accommodation. But what they want is legal acceptance to move such relationships towards being seen as normal over time.

Those who call not giving legal accommodation to same sex unions "discrimination" will have to also call not allowing bigamy, polygamy and adult incestous relationships "discrimination" as well. Should we then end "discrimination" and allow any and all forms of creative unions? I think not!

CG, like you, I do not want to see the people at the dinner party abused in any form. However, I do not see witholding marriage and civil unions (and other non one man one woman marriage) from them is abusive.

I had an interesting evening the other night. I met with a group of people who were not like me. They were Homosexuals, Lesbians, and Transgenders. Had we met for a dinner party, or for some other social event, I would have hardly noticed the difference but we met to talk about the problems faced by them.

They were nice people. I did not feel threatened or uncomfortable. I was made to feel welcome. However, I did feel a bit sad as I listened to the stories they had to tell. Stories about injustices that they had suffered, also the physical threats and attacks. The first thought that came to my mind was, why would someone choose to be as they are? The answer is simply. No one would! They did not choose to be as they are, they just are - and they suffer for it at our hands! In a way, I could relate to them. I am Buddhist. I have had people shun me because of it. It is a minor thing, compared to their sufferings, but I could relate.

I am now going to talk to Black people. At one time in this country you were shunned by the establishment because you were different. You suffered injustices. You, of all people, should have a warm heart to those who are thought to be different. You know what it is like, and it stinks!

As I sat there I wondered WWJD? (What would Jesus do?) He would have embraced them. A man, with as warm a heart as his, could do nothing else. Judged them? I doubt it. He may have given his opinion but he still would have loved them and condemned those who persecuted them.

I opened this posting by saying that they were not like me. The truth is they are like me. They get up in the morning and brush their teeth, they go to work. They worry about money. They pay the same taxes as anyone else. They love their families. They get tired. Their feet hurt! They sweat when it is hot and shiver when it is cold. They cry when sad, and laugh at a good joke. They are human beings. The only difference is their sexual lives, which is really a small part of life, and like the heterosexual, is done behind closed doors and is no ones' business. Yet, because of that difference we feel justified in despising them.

As the meeting ended, I felt the need to do something that I seldom do with people who are not Buddhist or Hindu, as people from other traditions seldom understand it. It is to place the hands together in front of ones face (as if one was about to pray) to bow ones head slightly, and to say, "Namaste." (Pronounced, na ma stay.) It means, to pay homage, or respect, to the inner light (call it God if you like!) in all living beings. I had a feeling these people needed that sign of respect from a "straight" person. They did indeed have that inner light. I wanted them to know it. They ALL returned the blessing. It was wonderful.

So, to those who were at the meeting, Namaste! To all of those who read this, if you agree or not, Namaste! Because we all have that inner light. Let it shine!!!!

Thank you CG for coming so many people don't see us as human or at least not equal human beings. You are welcome to come anytime. Contrary to talk shows and newspapers the Rainbow Alliance is for all people.
Remember to be a member of the Rainbow Alliance you only have to believe in equal rights for all and then say I am a member of the Rainbow Alliance and bam! You are a member. You can even do it when you are by your self. The Rainbow Alliance is more a state of mind than a counted membership.

Hi CG:

Yours is quite a moving piece. My heart sincerely goes out to ALL people who are treated in inhumane ways like verbal abuse, physical attacks and threats.

I don't know what other forms of abuse that might have been mentioned at the dinner party but it has been my experience that those who are a part of supporting the homosexual cause tend to label ALL who do not support their views and agenda as being hateful, homophobic and abusive. I believe homosexuals and those who wish to pursue unions other than heterosexual ones should be allowed to do so without hindrance. However, I do not believe that the state should provide any form of legal accommodation (marriage, domestic partnerships, civil unions etc.) for those unions. For this I am called hateful, homophobic and abusive. But am I? I also do not support adultery and fornication and do not feel that we should pass laws to try to “normalize” the conduct of those who commit these acts. Do I hate, fear and abuse them as well? I am not bothered by those slanderous and abusive terms (hateful and homophobic) because they are not true. I love ALL people and do not abuse them.

I was talking with someone and he said Bahamian homosexuals have the same rights as Bahamian heterosexuals. They can marry the opposites sex anytime they want. To this person he did not see the inequality to that statement. So I asked him what would you call it if the government would not let you marry the woman you love because she is Bahamian Chinese. He said that’s discrimination against Bahamian Chinese. I said to him my point made. You are being discriminated against because of the way she was born. He went on to say that a church couldn’t allow to men to marry. I said the church does not issue the marriage license the church only conducts the ceremony. If the church dose not want to do the ceremony no one can force them. A female friend of the family wanted to marry a Cuban man. The Church refused because he was Cuban. The woman lives in Long Island with her Cuban husband. They were married at the marriage license office.

Call it what you want if 2 people want to live the rest of their lives together so be it. If the Christian church does not want to recognize this I can agree with this, After all it’s their church. But the government must deal with all people Christian non Christian male female young old black white blind dumb crippled or crazy not to forget heterosexual homosexual or transgender. And all must be equal under the law. Civil union has nothing to do with church (repeat) nothing. If 2 Jews want to be married in the Bahamas should they have to go to a Christian church NO. Your faith is a non-issue as far as government is concerned. Now if you want to say all non Christians can’t get married and or all marriages must be Christian ones so be it. But that’s not equality is it.


On another note, with sincere due respect, your comparison of the discrimination of blacks to that of homosexuals is faulty. There are many points to be made on this but I'll only make two.

1. Nobody can successfully dispute the fact that skin colour is NOT a matter of personal choice and cannot be changed. In other words, it is irrefutable that a person is born with a certain skin colour determined prior to birth that they did not choose. However, NOBODY can prove that sexual orientation is NOT a matter of personal choice. How do we know? Simple: The debate about it continues and I think we all know that if evidence existed to prove that sexual orientation is a matter of birth and not choice, those who support the homosexual cause would have brought the evidence forth long ago and the debate would have been over long ago.

2. While we have never seen anyone testifying about changing their skin colour, we have an inordinate amount of persons who publicly testify of having changed their sexual orientation from deviant forms to heterosexuality. I can point you to some very public persons who have renounced homosexuality and other deviant forms of sexuality if you wish. I know of none who have changed their skin colour.


Cedric evidence has been given. So much so that The American Psychiatry along with many other medical associations have deemed Homosexuality and transgender a natural human condition just as being born black, blind or blue eyed.
There have been studies done on cadaver brains and they have found a difference in their structure. It was even posted in Time some years ago, not to mention other medical journals. I am not homosexual but I understand what it is to be different.
You were at when they had the presentation on homosexuality. You referenced buttons and buttonholes. The gentlemen representing the physiological and medical fields both said it is considered normal human behavior. How much more proof do you need. Oh maybe a baby needs to be born with homosexual on it forehead.
Even Christ said that there are people are born that don't fit the normal (for the lack of a better word) criteria of male or female.

However Cedric if seeing it on documentary might help I invite you and CG to come to my home and see "Is It A Boy Or Is It A Girl" It was shown on the discovery Channel.


Anyway, aside from the black discrimination comparison part, thanks for the excellent piece!

CG:

The word discrimination is a broad brush now adays. The groups protesting the extradition of persons to the USA to answer to drug charges are also citing discrimination.

While not allowing persons of the same sex to enter legal unions is indeed discrimination, it is NOT discrimination in the way that blacks were discriminated against. Blacks have no other choice but to be black. Same sex persons can still enjoy their same sex relationships minus the legal accommodation. But what they want is legal acceptance to move such relationships towards being seen as normal over time.

Those who call not giving legal accommodation to same sex unions "discrimination" will have to also call not allowing bigamy, polygamy and adult incestous relationships "discrimination" as well. Should we then end "discrimination" and allow any and all forms of creative unions? I think not!

CG, like you, I do not want to see the people at the dinner party abused in any form. However, I do not see witholding marriage and civil unions (and other non one man one woman marriage) from them is abusive.

I think we have been through this before.

I agree with you, the word discrimination is thrown around a lot these days. There can be good discrimination (The cognitive process whereby two or more stimuli are distinguished.) Or bad discrimination (Unfair treatment of a person or group on the basis of prejudice.) We all use the former. Hopefully, we don't use the latter. Can we be prejudiced by our religion?

I don't think I mentioned marriage and civil unions in my posting. As I remember, no one at the meeting mention that either. All I mentioned was the physical sufferings, which I know you abhor. I wonder how far religion has gone in justifying, even if unconsciously, these kinds of attacks in the minds of people who follow the faith?

CG:

The word discrimination is a broad brush now adays. The groups protesting the extradition of persons to the USA to answer to drug charges are also citing discrimination.

While not allowing persons of the same sex to enter legal unions is indeed discrimination, it is NOT discrimination in the way that blacks were discriminated against. Blacks have no other choice but to be black. Same sex persons can still enjoy their same sex relationships minus the legal accommodation. But what they want is legal acceptance to move such relationships towards being seen as normal over time.

Those who call not giving legal accommodation to same sex unions "discrimination" will have to also call not allowing bigamy, polygamy and adult incestous relationships "discrimination" as well. Should we then end "discrimination" and allow any and all forms of creative unions? I think not!

Thank you CG for coming so many people don't see us as human or at least not equal human beings. You are welcome to come anytime. Contrary to talk shows and newspapers the Rainbow Alliance is for all people.
Remember to be a member of the Rainbow Alliance you only have to believe in equal rights for all and then say I am a member of the Rainbow Alliance and bam! You are a member. You can even do it when you are by your self. The Rainbow Alliance is more a state of mind than a counted membership.


Cedric What you are saying here is people should not be allowed to think for them selves. The Church and their (and your) ideals should think for them. (Then it will be which church will be in charge.)
I have seen that in practice. Barbara a friend is dead because of her mother’s religious belief on blood transfusion. (I had to pause a moment as I was raging in my heart over this.) This is wrong
I want nothing to do with your ideals please keep them in your church. Don't force them on me. I am not telling you that you must wear a dress am I saying leave me alone in mine and treat me with the dignity and respect as any other human being. That is what you should be teaching in your church. Treat all people as you want to be treated your self. Oops did Christ say that to.


CG, like you, I do not want to see the people at the dinner party abused in any form. However, I do not see witholding marriage and civil unions (and other non one man one woman marriage) from them is abusive.

I think we have been through this before.

I agree with you, the word discrimination is thrown around a lot these days. There can be good discrimination (The cognitive process whereby two or more stimuli are distinguished.) Or bad discrimination (Unfair treatment of a person or group on the basis of prejudice.) We all use the former. Hopefully, we don't use the latter. Can we be prejudiced by our religion?

I don't think I mentioned marriage and civil unions in my posting. As I remember, no one at the meeting mention that either. All I mentioned was the physical sufferings, which I know you abhor. I wonder how far religion has gone in justifying, even if unconsciously, these kinds of attacks in the minds of people who follow the faith?
You hit the nail on the head CG.
I keep thinking about Ebony form that meeting and how he/she felt. 16 years old and raped. When he/she goes to report it he/she is treated like a criminal. Taken in the bathroom and slapped up by a police officer. Here you have a person who clearly has gender dysphoria and treated like a sub human because he/she is different. He/she can now come and talk about it because he/she is 18.
Was it discrimination when Rome would round up Christians and feed then to animals for a spectator event?? After all Christianity is a choice??

Vicky:

You misread or read into my post what I did not say. I never referred to the Church in my post. In fact you will see that I referred to not supporting legal accommodation for any other union than one man, one woman heterosexual marriage. Clearly, as you rightly stated, the church does not give marriage licences.

I have said before and I say it again, the issue of the legalization of marriage is a state matter. So why all the fuss about the church when I never mentioned it?

I agree CG.

Sorry Delroy, somehow I missed your posting.
Namaste!
My dear friend.

Sorry Delroy, somehow I missed your posting.
Namaste!
My dear friend.
Your welcome CG.

I heard a word the other day and it said that God holds the universe between two fingers. That word inspired me to write this poem (http://www.bahamasissues.com/showthread.php?p=5713#post5713).

It reminded me that God has all power and no one else. No matter the intensions of man be it good or bad He has the final say. I believe strongly that God is using these people to test His people. This is a great test as it will decide the future of our nation. God has placed the future of our nation in the hands of His people. The same test is taking place in America and it's sad to witness them failing miserably. America is becoming more and more divided everyday and a Kingdom divided will fall.

I believe that we will pass this test and the world will look to us for safety in these last days.

Any Alliance, whatever the intentions they have if God is not the foundation it will fall. You play your role and I will play mine.

Vicky:

You misread or read into my post what I did not say. I never referred to the Church in my post. In fact you will see that I referred to not supporting legal accommodation for any other union than one man, one woman heterosexual marriage. Clearly, as you rightly stated, the church does not give marriage licences.

I have said before and I say it again, the issue of the legalization of marriage is a state matter. So why all the fuss about the church when I never mentioned it?

OK then Cedric
Cedric What you are saying here is people should not be allowed to think for them selves. You and your ideals should think for them. Which would then put you in charge.
I want nothing to do with your ideals please don't force them on other people. I am not telling you that you must wear a dress am I saying leave me alone in mine and treat me with the dignity and respect as any other human being. That is what you should be teaching. Treat all people as you want to be treated your self. Oops did Christ say that to.

...What you are saying here is people should not be allowed to think for them selves...

Vicky, it is not for nothing that Jesus is called "The Good Shepherd," His priests often called "Under-Shepherds" and the people, or the "flock" are known as sheep! (Held by many to be the dumbest animals on four feet.) The shepherd leads, the sheep follow. In the Christian iconography that is how it works, and there is where the problem lies these days. To many of the sheep are not as sheepish as they used to be!