1. Ummm. Its not equal treatment. Its preferential treatment if all humans have a suffering that they have to bare, while the suffering for a homosexual is his sexuality but he is allowed to drop his borden. That is not equality.
The only burden to bare by GLBT is inequality forced on us by society. We can't live with out someone trying to hurt us and our familys. Make it equal stop the hate. We are not less than human and there for entitled to same freedom as you are.
2. Eunuch-hood?? You are stretching. Are you going to ask if paralysis is also defined by society?? Don't you know, some people are born paralyzed and others are made so thru accident. You are going on tangents that have nothing to do with the subject.

A eunuch is some one who does not fit the male female role and we come from our mother's womb that way. Just because there are not a lot of us does not mean we are unnatural.

Finekameo:

1. My feelings of love, anger, pain are not based on some external stimuli. I don't find love or anger or pain. I express love, anger and pain. These are internal. I express these emotions to objects outside of me. But I can be in love with an imaginary person. I can even hate people I don't know. Racist people do it all the time. There are even blind people that are racist.

2. Straight people suffer in life all of the time. The difference is that their sexuality is not the source of their suffering. Otherwise, we all suffer.

Our sorce of suffering is not our sexuality ot our gender idenitity. Its people like you who say we must live as you see fit for us to live and we must go along with it or be hated and discrimanated against. So Sorry I don't fit in the closet you have chosen for me. Guess you will just have to learn to live with it. We are comming out. The RainBow Alliance is opening the first GLBT center in the Bahamas this weekend.

Vicky:

1. Sexuality and the expression of it in various forms is a choice. For homosexuals and well as for heterosexuals. A penis does not express heterosexuality. Even blindness does not express sight or the lack of sight. Blind people do see, just not with their eyes. Humans are not born gay, lesbian or straight -- there's tons of pyschological evidence that says otherwise. But when we speak of genetics -- and that's what we do when we say people are born gay, straight or lesbian -- then psychology is not the field of expertise that you go to. Biology is where you turn. The latest research on human biology comes from the Human Genome Project. To make it short and sweet -- there is no way that humans are born gay, lesbian or even straight. We are born sexual.I say prove it. But while you are at it check this out. http://www.aaa.dk/TURNER/ENGELSK/KLINEN.HTM#what
http://www.gynecomastia.org/
http://www.kumc.edu/gec/support/ambig.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/gender/

chew on this one.
http://www.umm.edu/ency/article/003269.htm
Ambiguous genitalia are those in which it is difficult to classify the infant (by physical examination) as male or female. The extent of the ambiguity varies. In very rare instances, the physical appearance may be fully developed as the opposite of the genetic sex (e.g., a genetic male may have normal female appearance). a transgendered person.
I suppose these poeple choose this too.
Think you better research before you type, or you might get athlets tounge. :footmouth
Just like we are born linguistic, with the ability to speak. But an english speaking person is taught english. A french person is taught french. So no, homosexuality or trans-genderism, is not some brain defect. It is a social defect. A lapse in socialization. There are men who are stimulated by 9 year old girls. That is defined by us as a lapse in socialization. We call it a crime if he acts. There are men who are stimulated by dogs and goats. Also a lapse in socialization. We call it beastiality and label it as wrong. Society defines all social expressions, from speaking english to being christian to being heterosexual and so on. Because all of these are shared behavior. These are not things that you define on your own. You can't be christian or speak english or be homosexual by yourself. So society tells you what they are and how to do them. Society can also tell you that the act is wrong. Just as society defines proper and improper english. There is proper and improper sexual expression. GLBT are examples of improper sexual expression.

So when were you taught to be heterosexual?? Why did you choose to go along with this teaching and other’s don't. I was never taught to be transgendered it is what I was born as. I told my mother about me when I was about 36-37. She told me Drs did a procedure on me at birth because my sex was underdeveloped. She said she thought I was going to turn out to be homosexual. I wish she would have told me growing up, and then I would have understood why I was always getting picked on. Do you really think I choose this?????????????????????????????
With what you are saying Adam must have taught his children homosexuality. After all it had to start some where using your theory.

:screw:
This is an interesting response, but sadly it is not surprising at all to get this kind of response from a Bahamian. Since you are in England, I would assume you went there to be educated, so I am surprised to get this kind of response from an educated person.

You state that homosexuality is not part of the "mainstream". By this I assume that you mean it is not part of the majority, because it has been beaten to death here and many stats and studies have been mentioned to prove that it is indeed natural.

Your argument here seems very familiar to me somehow. I seem to remember in my history class when slavery existed, the rationale for its continued existence was because society perceived the black man to be a subhuman, therefore "their issues were moot". At the time the black man's race and culture was seen as inferior and thus "their issues were moot". As the old expression goes, "Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it" and it seems very true in your case.


Dont you ever ever class slavery with homosexuality, it is logicaly incorrect, sexual activity is chosen by participants, just as murder and stealing. Slavery is slavery it is an involuntary servitude placed on an individual without choice...HUGE DIFFERENCE!
Homosexuality is not mainstream here, if it were we would be having the vestments of homosexuality blatantly plastered in the midst of our everyday life, and hence people would acknowledge it as a way fo life.

Secondly, our constitution states that we are not only a christian nation "even though some intend to push the envelope on what christian should entail", but we are a democratic nation of majority rule dont forget that finekameo! :D
The people here have the right to vote for the indivuals who represent their feelings on the way their country should be run....so when you see a pro-gay rights official running for office on a pro gay agenda and ticket..then you can come to me and say, YK, i told ya so...and even if one happnes to build the gumption to run on that type of ticket he has to be accepted by the majority of his constituency and then the whole country most go on that whole wave of sentiment in order to make any movement in our legislation to act on that!

Homosexual marriage and activity has never, and in my estimation will never be a SALIENT issue in Bahamian politics, becasue when it comes to sexual activity, 1. Most Bahamians are not deathly homophobic, but beleive that sex and family should be between a man and a woman..
2. Sex is a chosen act, and most people see it as that and that it shouldnt be a civil rights act in itself.

We built most of our laws on the laws of religion no matter how much people say that it is not. So, whether it is we are not developed enough for you and vicky :D or we just plain ole dont want to have gays running around saying they are being trampled on, the issue is really a moot point!
Common law marriages and opposite sex partners are still having issue when it comes o privileges and rights of relation endowment all for the right reasons. Even though we dont practice our terms of that type of agreement "between two consenting adults" dictates....Homosexuals have no real issue in the Bahamas and it shouldnt be made to seem that they are being trampled on and that they have no rights!

We have gone far out of our way to accept everyone on social merrit here in this country and we believe in freedom just as America does...even before we make it to a national poll or referendum to ask about this issue so on all counts once again, Homosexuality is moot!

LOL,

I wanna know how many times will we hear:
Vicky's story about her "procedure",
the long post on all the Bible scriptures about Sodom,
a tale of the earth being flat,
Vicky's definition of a eunuch,
stories about witches being burned by Christians,
and last but not least...the question of when we chose to be heterosexual.

(hmmm...I wonder if I forgot any... :confused: )

Lawd dis one long repetitive tread,<suck teet>.

LOL,

I wanna know how many times will we hear:
Vicky's story about her "procedure",
the long post on all the Bible scriptures about Sodom,
a tale of the earth being flat,
Vicky's definition of a eunuch,
stories about witches being burned by Christians,
and last but not least...the question of when we chose to be heterosexual.

(hmmm...I wonder if I forgot any... :confused: )



no matter what we do guys..vick will bump it to the top, and bore some new poster with ehr ideas!!
:sarcastic

Vicky:

You are grasping at straws, attempting to prove a point on a technicality. It seems you spent your life studying how to defend your deviance. And you aren't doing a good job.

Genesis Ch. 19 V. 5:

"..and they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night bring them out unto us, that we may know them"

-- Up until this point, the plan was not to destroy the cities but then the men of the city insisted on having sex with Lot's visitors.

-- Whoever you are cutting and pasting those bible verses from didn't tell you to be smart enough to at least read the book of Genesis.

1. Manhood and womanhood are roles defined by society.


you know i was just thinking about how much society, demographics, or peer groups subtly influence peoples descions. take these two examples:

the ear ring - my demographic (black males 15-25) the majority says a boy/man wearing an earing is aceptable. why is this so, common sense says that if a man wants to wear a accessory of femine origin then he probably has some cross dressing tendencies tucked away some where. so why do so many boys/men do it? becuase peers say its ok.

the pink shirt - when i was growing up in the 90's a pink shirt on a boy/man was pretty much un heard of and you would get some stares maybe even a beat down for wearing one. so why is it that today pink is the new trend amoung young males? becuase society now says hey its ok for boys to wear pink now.

ALL I KNOW IS ITS A BUNCH OF CRAP


2. There are times when I feel like killing a person, these feelings are normal. Are you advocating that I should ignore such a strong impulse just as you advocate a homosexual or crossdresser are justified in giving into their impulses??


you can in no way compare a person giving into the feelings of killing someone to a person giving into the feelings of living freely as a cross dresser or homosexual. do you know how serious kiling some one is, i think watching too many death scenes in movies has desensatised us to the seriousness of it. any way if a person kills some one they hurt them, they take away that persons right to live; when a person lives a openly gay life or cross dressing life they hurt no one. sure you can say well they hurting themselves; but remeber that: they hurt themselves and not someone else or you.


3. Yes I do expect homosexuals to live their lives in shame and pain, life is pain. We all experience pain. We all live with it unwillingly. My grandmother died. I didn't want to live my life in denial about my anger or about my pain. But, life isn't about me. Life is shared. It is unfair for me to live amongst others and force them to accept my impulses and desires. Why should a homosexual get preferential treatment.


i dont think homosexuals are forcing there impulses and desires on you. if that were true every gay you meet would say "hey lets have sex" every cross dresser you meet would make you put on a bra and panty. so are you saying a person that feels attracted to the opposite sex should enter into a hetro relationship, cuase thats what it sounds like. thats fine if you feel that way, but do you know what kind of drama and problems ensue when a homosexual does this. look at it this way would you want a person to get involve with you secretly knowing they are attracted to the same sex?

Vicky:

1. Sexuality and the expression of it in various forms is a choice. For homosexuals and well as for heterosexuals. A penis does not express heterosexuality. Even blindness does not express sight or the lack of sight. Blind people do see, just not with their eyes. Humans are not born gay, lesbian or straight -- there's tons of pyschological evidence that says otherwise. But when we speak of genetics -- and that's what we do when we say people are born gay, straight or lesbian -- then psychology is not the field of expertise that you go to. Biology is where you turn. The latest research on human biology comes from the Human Genome Project. To make it short and sweet -- there is no way that humans are born gay, lesbian or even straight. We are born sexual. Just like we are born linguistic, with the ability to speak. But an english speaking person is taught english. A french person is taught french. So no, homosexuality or trans-genderism, is not some brain defect. It is a social defect. A lapse in socialization. There are men who are stimulated by 9 year old girls. That is defined by us as a lapse in socialization. We call it a crime if he acts. There are men who are stimulated by dogs and goats. Also a lapse in socialization. We call it beastiality and label it as wrong. Society defines all social expressions, from speaking english to being christian to being heterosexual and so on. Because all of these are shared behavior. These are not things that you define on your own. You can't be christian or speak english or be homosexual by yourself. So society tells you what they are and how to do them. Society can also tell you that the act is wrong. Just as society defines proper and improper english. There is proper and improper sexual expression. GLBT are examples of improper sexual expression.


WOAH. well this is a new theory i have never heard before. you are actually saying that people are not born striaght!!!!?????? most striaght people take the stance that they were born straight and BLTG CHOOSE to do their own thing. what evidence to you have to support this?

so are you saying that we learn sexuality just as we learn our native tongue. i have to say thats hard to believe becuase how would you explain a person raised by two gay parents yet the child is hetrosexual, why didnt every one teach and display only hetrosexuality from the begining of time; to say sexuality is learned :confused: . our sexulity, personalities, tendancies, fetishes, a persons wanting to be with adolesence etc we are BORN with. these things are in are brains and glands that produce chemicals and hormones which make us act the way we do.

the last bit in red is an intresting theory. actually your entire post was pretty intresting it is definatly stuff i have never seen before

LOL,

I wanna know how many times will we hear:
Vicky's story about her "procedure",
the long post on all the Bible scriptures about Sodom,
a tale of the earth being flat,
Vicky's definition of a eunuch,
stories about witches being burned by Christians,
and last but not least...the question of when we chose to be heterosexual.

(hmmm...I wonder if I forgot any... :confused: )

As long as people keep posting their theory. I will post mine and back it up. Still waiting on someone to back up their claim on the Sodom story.

no matter what we do guys..vick will bump it to the top, and bore some new poster with ehr ideas!!
:sarcastic

I post them as I see them Just as you do. I respond to opinions just as you do. Oh but I back mine up.

Vicky:

You are grasping at straws, attempting to prove a point on a technicality. It seems you spent your life studying how to defend your deviance. And you aren't doing a good job.

Genesis Ch. 19 V. 5:

"..and they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night bring them out unto us, that we may know them"

-- Up until this point, the plan was not to destroy the cities but then the men of the city insisted on having sex with Lot's visitors.

-- Whoever you are cutting and pasting those bible verses from didn't tell you to be smart enough to at least read the book of Genesis.


So then the Angels wanted to have sex with the men??? My thought is no. So lets say you are right and the men wanted to rape the Angels. Rape is not homosexuality Rape is rape. Homosexuals that love each other or concent to have sex with each other or want to marry don't rape each other do they? They consent.

Oh and you should read the rest of the long post to "know" does not mean have sex with. Read the part about the word "Yadha"

Dont you ever ever class slavery with homosexuality, it is logicaly incorrect, sexual activity is chosen by participants, just as murder and stealing. Slavery is slavery it is an involuntary servitude placed on an individual without choice...HUGE DIFFERENCE!Maybe just a little difference. But slaves were considered less than human their for not entitled to equal rights. HHHmm sounds exactly the same to me.
Homosexuality is not mainstream here, if it were we would be having the vestments of homosexuality blatantly plastered in the midst of our everyday life, and hence people would acknowledge it as a way fo life.

Secondly, our constitution states that we are not only a christian nation "even though some intend to push the envelope on what christian should entail", but we are a democratic nation of majority rule dont forget that finekameo! :D You lie through your teeth The Constitution has no provision for Christainity. There is a part in the preamble which has nothing to do with the laws of the Bahamas.
THE CONSTITUTION OF THE COMMONWEALTH OF THE BAHAMAS

Preamble

Whereas Four hundred and eighty-one years ago the rediscovery of this Family of Islands, Rocks and Cays heralded the rebirth of the New World;

And Whereas the People of this Family of Islands recognizing that the preservation of their Freedom will be guaranteed by a national commitment to Self-discipline, Industry, Loyalty, Unity and an abiding respect for Christian values and the Rule of Law;

Now Know Ye Therefore:

We the Inheritors of and Successors to this Family of Islands, recognizing the Supremacy of God and believing in the Fundamental Rights and Freedoms of the Individual, Do Hereby Proclaim in Solemn Praise the Establishment of a Free and Democratic Sovereign Nation founded on Spiritual Values and in which no Man, Woman or Child shall ever be Slave or Bondsman to anyone or their Labour exploited or their Lives frustrated by deprivation, and do Hereby Provide by these Articles for the indivisible Unity and Creation under God of the Commonwealth of The Bahamas.

No matter how may time you say it you will never make it the truth.
Christain Values will never equal Christian Nation and never will.
Spiritual Values does not equal Chirstian Nation and never will.
Please research before you type. I am pretty sure Tinactin taste bad but its does get rid of athletes foot so it might work on athletes mouth. :footmouth

The people here have the right to vote for the indivuals who represent their feelings on the way their country should be run....so when you see a pro-gay rights official running for office on a pro gay agenda and ticket..then you can come to me and say, YK, i told ya so...and even if one happnes to build the gumption to run on that type of ticket he has to be accepted by the majority of his constituency and then the whole country most go on that whole wave of sentiment in order to make any movement in our legislation to act on that!
Have no fear its in the works
Homosexual marriage and activity has never, and in my estimation will never be a SALIENT issue in Bahamian politics, becasue when it comes to sexual activity, 1. Most Bahamians are not deathly homophobic, but beleive that sex and family should be between a man and a woman..
2. Sex is a chosen act, and most people see it as that and that it shouldnt be a civil rights act in itself.
So true but sexual orientation and gender identity is not sex.
We built most of our laws on the laws of religion no matter how much people say that it is not. So, whether it is we are not developed enough for you and vicky :D Growing pains or we just plain ole dont want to have gays running around saying they are being trampled on, the issue is really a moot point!
Common law marriages and opposite sex partners are still having issue when it comes o privileges and rights of relation endowment all for the right reasons. Even though we dont practice our terms of that type of agreement "between two consenting adults" dictates....Homosexuals have no real issue in the Bahamas and it shouldnt be made to seem that they are being trampled on and that they have no rights!

We have gone far out of our way to accept everyone on social merrit here in this country and we believe in freedom just as America does...even before we make it to a national poll or referendum to ask about this issue so on all counts once again, Homosexuality is moot!

I am a new "poster" and although I am a gay I have no knowledge or information on transgender issues and the problems that confront them. I found Vicky's historical narrative extremely informative. It must have been an unimaginably difficult journey to reach a point that you can speak so freely on matters so personal to your life. I for one appreciate Vicky's repeat for her story, and I respect her tenacity and bravery. I learned from it. Clearly some of you have not. <suck teet> It takes one person at a time to shatter the image of what it is to be gay (lesbian, transgender). In Bahamas today there are doctors, lawyers, teachers, choir directors, engineers and police that are gay. They are forced to live in a society and hide the realities of their true selves. Would you rather we lie, and sneak around behind a ladies back. What many of you argue for is a double-edged sword. If you are gay isn’t it better to be honest with yourself, your family and your loved ones (if Bahamas were a society that could accept that). Instead you argue non science...."gays are not born that way"...who would choose to go thru the hate and prejudice we face, not me, if I had a choice I would choose straight, however I do not have that choice. So instead I choose honesty. I don’t sneak for anyone. (I am a sport playing, fishing, traveling, masculine, handsome, successful brotha that you would not know were gay unless u asked me... and people like me are all around you right now). You read all the time of the spread of HIV amongst heterosexual women, and "down low" brothas...this is a direct result of a society that refuses to allow them to be who they are, a society that requires they lead double lives. Not me. They choose to try to live a lie...but as we all know lies have a way of piling up and eventually they catch up to you. Ask yourself if your brother, your sister, your best friend, or your lover were gay...would you rather they are honest with you or lie to you. If you choose honesty...are you doing your part to make it easier for them to be honest or are you making the Bahamian society as inhospitable a place as possible. Gay is not a lifestyle choice. It is a fact. Given that fact . . .how would you have us live our lives?

So then the Angels wanted to have sex with the men??? My thought is no. So lets say you are right and the men wanted to rape the Angels. Rape is not homosexuality Rape is rape. Homosexuals that love each other or concent to have sex with each other or want to marry don't rape each other do they? They consent.

Oh and you should read the rest of the long post to "know" does not mean have sex with. Read the part about the word "Yadha"



You have some severe issues, that's just the truth. My point was, you conveniently *LEFT* out the sexual suggestion of Genesis Ch. 19 V. 5 -- end of story. Then you tried to justify it with some warping of ancient aramaic.

http://epistle.us/hbarticles/sodom2.html

"(4) The most important word here, however, is yadha (Strong, #3045). Like the English verb "know," yadha is applied in the OT to a wide range of circumstances, including having "sexual knowledge" (sex with someone). D.S. Bailey noted (1955) that yadha is never used anywhere (else) in the OT to refer to homosexual union, while another word shakhabh ("lie down" for rest or sex, #7601) is used to refer to cases of "illicit sex," including incest, adultery, rape, same-sex union, and bestiality (for the last two, see Lev 18:22-23). Therefore, he concluded that yadha in 19:5 meant simply to "get acquainted with" – to find out whether these strangers held hostile intentions toward the city.10 Bailey's view has been accepted by some interpreters (e.g. John McNeill, John Boswell, Marvin Pope), but rejected by others (e.g. Gerard von Rad, Tom Horner, Victor Hamilton). However, as Horner points out,11 a word in Hebrew (as in every language) can only be precisely understood in its context; and Lot's offer to hand over his two virgin daughters for sexual abuse (yadha in 19:8 clearly has a sexual meaning) makes most sense as an attempt to satisfy the mob's sexual lust for the male visitors. Calvin (1509-64) suggested that the men of Sodom meant to frame their question in a concealed way, to hide their real, more-sinister motives. Maybe so, maybe not, since they had been at this so long."

-- Can you read?? Do you see the part where *YADHA* has an explicit sexual meaning. And the men of town didn't say they wanted to rape them. They said they wanted to have sex with them. Do you know any human being that would ever ask permission to rape another person??

-- Hell no.


Bahmaboy:

Google the term "homosexuality/genetics". You'll find the latest research done by the human genome project. Also, there's a book "Nature vs Nuture". I can't remember the name of the researchers but I think you can find it on amazon. Anyway, socialization doesn't solely occur in the home. There are parents who raise children in a christian home, but still the child commits crimes. The theory was once that criminals were born criminal-minded. That theory has been abandoned a long time ago. Socialization happens in society. Not just the home. There is school. Church. Friends. And other social peer groups that help mold and shape the individual's psyche. The same thing was said about intelligence. But Einstein's parents had IQ's that were about half of his. Heisenberg's parents were even dumber. So were Edward Witten. But these are the most intelligent men in the world's history.