Timeline: Christianity, Judaism, Islam

[Alien]

we can go on and on.....
my oppinion doesnt apply alone, and neither does yours!

so....
:walk:

[CG]

we can go on and on.....
my oppinion doesnt apply alone, and neither does yours!

so....
:walk:


:walk:

[Vicky]

CG It never fails when people like y2kbad and Delroy are confronted with their own words and references they back down.
Because to admit the truth, they then have to say the things they believe to be fact are wrong. So for them the world remains flat.

For example y2kbad claims to be against abortion. But when asked would he adopt the unwanted children he does not answer. When asked what is to become of the unwanted children? he does not answer.

[Alien]

CG It never fails when people like y2kbad and Delroy are confronted with their own words and references they back down.
Because to admit the truth, they then have to say the things they believe to be fact are wrong. So for them the world remains flat.
once again, anyone who doesnt agree with you is ignorant!
royal smart person vicky!


For example y2kbad claims to be against abortion. But when asked would he adopt the unwanted children he does not answer. When asked what is to become of the unwanted children? he does not answer.

i answered you...you just are too interested in what you have to say..rather than any one else!

no ones backing down anywhere...i said what i have to say, and gave valid points, i dont know how you got to this one, where cg and me were doing something totaly not on your axis!
i guess i ruffled your feathers...... :angel:

and with this topic in paticular, there is nothing left for me to say to cg...
we have different outlooks...and that is that!

if you want to continue to argue on moot and meaningless isuess..go ahead, i would love to see you talk to yourself!!
:D

[Vicky]

Y2kbad the time line of Christianity is important to me. The history of the Christian faith can't be changed. The history has all the atrocities, mistakes, and the misinterpretations. You know, the things they don't want you to know.

It proves how Christians were mistaken in the past and can be mistaken now.
The one thing they can't change is the meaning in the teachings of Christ. They make many an interpretation and try to call it Christian. But it much of the time is flawed because there is fear, hate and discrimination in it. None of these 3 elements are in Christ teachings….

You never answered what you would do with the unwanted children NEVER.

[Alien]

well why dont you put a hold on the bash..and talk about the good things!
the love jesus has shown us...
the messages the prophets had taught us..
the love God has for us all...
the way he protects the sinner, and punishes the evil..
the way he loves us unconditionaly..
the way jesus martyrted himself on the cross..
the way mother theresa loved men with the kindess of a supernatural
the way alot of ordinary people to you, take the words to heart, and live to be good every day, and never try to be perfect
the way you take the good with the bad..and be better...
love your neighbor, and understand his position...
understand that with all the bad you feel, there is a good that will come of it
the way people undertsand that evil comes in all forms and we deal with it..
the way people go to church every day and pray and listen to the word, and go out and be better people..
the journey the christian faith has taken, and it wasnt becasue it was rotten at the core from the beggining...becasue it was strong and people who pushed it was and still are strong...
the way christianity has flourished in the past 1000 years...
the milestones christianity has made, and the people pushing the agenda are truly fulfilled, and understand their lives meaning...

not every one who makes one mistake is gpoing to hell vicky...we have our faith and with that we will win all the time over evil, pessimism and people who rather not look at the religion for its good, but look to poke at the wrong they have experienced.
in all manners...in all ways...good evens it out, and with that i am content! even with your trying to save the world..keep at saving your self first...
:angel:

I am content with my spirituality, rather than that, i am satisfied with the road i am traveling with my sprirituality...its ongoing, and loving every minute of my life, becasue i understand life is here to enjoy, and serve the good!

[Alien]

You never answered what you would do with the unwanted children NEVER.


its an ongoing strugle....
but i strongly beleive, you can not start butchering people, just becasue we dont have the space, that kind of rhetoric are the words of ethnic cleansing, and mass murder.

so that out of the way..
and in a way it is a catch 22...WHAT CAN YOU DO FOR THE UNWANTED CHILDREN...as in fact you say they are unwanted.

we can not throw human beings in the butcher cage of experimentation, just becasue they are here by no means of theirs...that is for sure!!!
if human nature in general had that kind of meaning, emancipation would never be, and instead of freedom for the western blacks, there would be murderous days and killing nights for the black man in the western hemisphere!

with that the people, on a mass scale woke up..saw slavery was a thing of the past, and with help from both sides..it was abolished, and was never more in the western hemisphere.

in the full spectrum, there is nothing we can do for unwanted children who are allready here in the system, besides from....
1. provide the best foster care, private or state
2. ensure the state pays the bill on their primary and secondary education, if private sponsors are unavailable.
3. provide options post secondary schooll..eg work programs, or tertiary level oppenings for the scholasticly inclined
3. provide safe, and stable enviornments for them to mature and grow into respectable human beings...alot of people were adopted, and went through the foster care system, U.S president clinton was one of them...and a host of others!

most importantly, we have to attack this problem form the start, and that is before they even become unwanted children.
and the biggest key to date in population control, early childbirth, unwanted pregnancy, and huge family growth and mass child rearing, is...

The Education of Women!

it is a proven fact, that countries where women's literacy rate, and tertiary level rate is at a respectable standard..which i feel for tertiary women ages 18-45 is about than 40%, and for secondary level more than 90%, they in fact have less children and look for smaller scale families!
for all the various reasons that go with being educated..
proper birth control usage
abstinence
just being too busy building a life for themselves..
or they understand the horizons if they maintain a course of non pregnancy until they are ready for proper family development..
all play a role in the reduction of population growth and unwanted pregnancy!

so in answering your question... :D ..
you cant do anything for unwanted children...to me it was a trick question, and in most points, not a part of the bigger issues of the topic, and that being the butchering of human embryos...it saw a murderous end and an excape from what is the real issue!
we can only do what we CAN do...and the state is responsible for all entities in its sovereingty!

but the problem will be a part of society, we CAN make murder illegal, but we can not make illegal the amount of children a man and woman can have.
that descision must be totaly up to them, but responsibility must be taken in my mind, for parents of mass families and unwanted pregnancy candidates. social services and social welfare, must monitor properly the growth of bahamian families, and the productivity of the parties involved.

[Vicky]

well why dont you put a hold on the bash..and talk about the good things!
the love jesus has shown us...
the messages the prophets had taught us..
the love God has for us all...
the way he protects the sinner, and punishes the evil..
the way he loves us unconditionaly..
the way jesus martyrted himself on the cross..
the way mother theresa loved men with the kindess of a supernatural
the way alot of ordinary people to you, take the words to heart, and live to be good every day, and never try to be perfect
the way you take the good with the bad..and be better...
love your neighbor, and understand his position...
understand that with all the bad you feel, there is a good that will come of it
the way people undertsand that evil comes in all forms and we deal with it..
the way people go to church every day and pray and listen to the word, and go out and be better people..
the journey the christian faith has taken, and it wasnt becasue it was rotten at the core from the beggining...becasue it was strong and people who pushed it was and still are strong...
the way christianity has flourished in the past 1000 years...
the milestones christianity has made, and the people pushing the agenda are truly fulfilled, and understand their lives meaning...

not every one who makes one mistake is gpoing to hell vicky...we have our faith and with that we will win all the time over evil, pessimism and people who rather not look at the religion for its good, but look to poke at the wrong they have experienced.
in all manners...in all ways...good evens it out, and with that i am content! even with your trying to save the world..keep at saving your self first...
:angel:

I am content with my spirituality, rather than that, i am satisfied with the road i am traveling with my sprirituality...its ongoing, and loving every minute of my life, becasue i understand life is here to enjoy, and serve the good!


Hi Y2kbad I do look for the good in a situation. Try being who I am and it’s a must. How ever anyone that tries to use Christ as an excuses to hate or discriminate is out right wrong. Anyone who thinks that Christian leaders can't be mistaken is blind. Traditional belief is not fact. When one sits by them selves quietly and reads the words in red (Christ teachings) you will see love and respect with out conditions.

[Vicky]

its an ongoing strugle....
but i strongly beleive, you can not start butchering people, just becasue we dont have the space, that kind of rhetoric are the words of ethnic cleansing, and mass murder.

so that out of the way..
and in a way it is a catch 22...WHAT CAN YOU DO FOR THE UNWANTED CHILDREN...as in fact you say they are unwanted.

we can not throw human beings in the butcher cage of experimentation, just becasue they are here by no means of theirs...that is for sure!!!
if human nature in general had that kind of meaning, emancipation would never be, and instead of freedom for the western blacks, there would be murderous days and killing nights for the black man in the western hemisphere!

with that the people, on a mass scale woke up..saw slavery was a thing of the past, and with help from both sides..it was abolished, and was never more in the western hemisphere.

in the full spectrum, there is nothing we can do for unwanted children who are allready here in the system, besides from....
1. provide the best foster care, private or state
2. ensure the state pays the bill on their primary and secondary education, if private sponsors are unavailable.
3. provide options post secondary schooll..eg work programs, or tertiary level oppenings for the scholasticly inclined
3. provide safe, and stable enviornments for them to mature and grow into respectable human beings...alot of people were adopted, and went through the foster care system, U.S president clinton was one of them...and a host of others!

most importantly, we have to attack this problem form the start, and that is before they even become unwanted children.
and the biggest key to date in population control, early childbirth, unwanted pregnancy, and huge family growth and mass child rearing, is...

The Education of Women!

it is a proven fact, that countries where women's literacy rate, and tertiary level rate is at a respectable standard..which i feel for tertiary women ages 18-45 is about than 40%, and for secondary level more than 90%, they in fact have less children and look for smaller scale families!
for all the various reasons that go with being educated..
proper birth control usage
abstinence
just being too busy building a life for themselves..
or they understand the horizons if they maintain a course of non pregnancy until they are ready for proper family development..
all play a role in the reduction of population growth and unwanted pregnancy!

so in answering your question... :D ..
you cant do anything for unwanted children...to me it was a trick question, and in most points, not a part of the bigger issues of the topic, and that being the butchering of human embryos...it saw a murderous end and an excape from what is the real issue!
we can only do what we CAN do...and the state is responsible for all entities in its sovereingty!

but the problem will be a part of society, we CAN make murder illegal, but we can not make illegal the amount of children a man and woman can have.
that descision must be totaly up to them, but responsibility must be taken in my mind, for parents of mass families and unwanted pregnancy candidates. social services and social welfare, must monitor properly the growth of bahamian families, and the productivity of the parties involved.

At lasts an answer. Only problem it’s a lot of what should be done not what is.
You say what the government and privet sector should do. Where does the Gov. get its money?
You only say women need to be educated on family values. Please look around, how many men still think they prove their manhood by the count of the children the father? Remember for every pregnancy there is a man involved to so just don't blame women.
I am not saying embryos should be grown for stem cell research. I am not saying they should not be. I am saying there are many thoughts questions that need to be dealt with. Then move on it. Don't be blind and just say no.
Now as for aborted stem cells. I simply say if abortions are going to happen then use these stem cells for research.

[Alien]

At lasts an answer. Only problem it’s a lot of what should be done not what is.
hrmph...and that is your best answer???
we only can do what we cant...it is the bahamas in generals fault for not proetcting their interests..and not holding their politicians to account!
there are checks and balances just for these types of things...but some people chose to poke and make fault in the sytem instead of trying to do their best!
i am full aware of the childrens homes...my mother made sure i was aware and i distincly remember spending a few of my birthdays with them!



You say what the government and privet sector should do. Where does the Gov. get its money?
Government gets its money from taxes...taxes are what makes the country run, and like i said there are checks and balances for these tyoes of things..you need to hold your pooliticians responsible!
becasue they are responsible for the interests of the people under their sovereingty!


You only say women need to be educated on family values. Please look around, how many men still think they prove their manhood by the count of the children the father? Remember for every pregnancy there is a man involved to so just don't blame women.
first off...it was not seen to make blame for anyone...it was a statement of true solution to an ongoing problem.
and i never said we need to educate women on family values...i said "we need to encourage the education of women period."
and with that...we had a huge insurgency in the empowerment of women in the bahamas, it started in the mid nineties ongoing til now..so much so that in the mix, we forgot that the males needed just as much encouragement.
regardles....the men in this country still hold the majority of the top positions in this country, but that is beside the point....
the point is the truth behind the education of women in paticular is the key factor in population control...regardless of the men.
you do need two to tango..but if you take away one you cant dance by yourself!
so with men and women walking with the power...you reduce the risk!


I am not saying embryos should be grown for stem cell research. I am not saying they should not be. I am saying there are many thoughts questions that need to be dealt with. Then move on it. Don't be blind and just say no.
Now as for aborted stem cells. I simply say if abortions are going to happen then use these stem cells for research.

to ME i have seen...looked enough...i dont need to anymore, becasue to me you can not justify the butchering of human embryos under any circumstance.
this isnt blind assumption if that is what you are implying....i have read and researched enough on it...and i understand my counterparts stand, but it is not my stance.

some things are simple vicky, BUT...THERE IS NOTHING COMPLEX ABOUT THE BUTCHERING OF HUMAN EMBRYOS!
you are one i see to wait til the opinnion suits the time, to be right...
there is no time to be right for a wrong solution!

[Alien]

Hi Y2kbad I do look for the good in a situation. Try being who I am and it’s a must. How ever anyone that tries to use Christ as an excuses to hate or discriminate is out right wrong. Anyone who thinks that Christian leaders can't be mistaken is blind. Traditional belief is not fact. When one sits by them selves quietly and reads the words in red (Christ teachings) you will see love and respect with out conditions.

well...i am waiting on the good right now...you talk about you looks for the good, but dont speak it!!!!
people use all means to discriminate agaisnt people..it is their perogative!

the fact is, things are still going strong, despite of all the bad things!!!
:angel:

[Vicky]

hrmph...and that is your best answer??? Ok you speak of ideals I speak of reality.
we only can do what we cant...it is the bahamas in generals fault for not proetcting their interests..and not holding their politicians to account!
there are checks and balances just for these types of things...but some people chose to poke and make fault in the sytem instead of trying to do their best!
i am full aware of the childrens homes...my mother made sure i was aware and i distincly remember spending a few of my birthdays with them!

The reality is, the checks and balance doesn’t work. Proof teenage pregnancy, abortions homeless kids, and kids to fare below the poverty level. I say what are you doing about it. Just saying someone needs to do something or doing it. Just having a few birthday parties does nothing lasting for the kids. I have a small 3 bed 1 bath (the 3rd bed was an extra room on the car port converted into a bed room) there are 9 people living there not all blood related. Some are there because they are blood related others because they are friends that have no place else to go. It was 10 but the young woman was able to convince her mother to take care of her daughter in Long Island. The young woman sleeps in our room on an air mattress. If we all were our brother and sisters keeper the world would be a better place.

Telling politicians they need to do something is 1 thing but a kid could die waiting.



Government gets its money from taxes...taxes are what makes the country run, and like i said there are checks and balances for these tyoes of things..you need to hold your pooliticians responsible!
becasue they are responsible for the interests of the people under their sovereingty!

Who pays the taxes?



first off...it was not seen to make blame for anyone...it was a statement of true solution to an ongoing problem.
and i never said we need to educate women on family values...i said "we need to encourage the education of women period."
and with that...we had a huge insurgency in the empowerment of women in the bahamas, it started in the mid nineties ongoing til now..so much so that in the mix, we forgot that the males needed just as much encouragement.
regardles....the men in this country still hold the majority of the top positions in this country, but that is beside the point....
the point is the truth behind the education of women in paticular is the key factor in population control...regardless of the men.
you do need two to tango..but if you take away one you cant dance by yourself!
so with men and women walking with the power...you reduce the risk!

Ok as long as you don't feel it’s only the women to blame.


to ME i have seen...looked enough...i dont need to anymore, becasue to me you can not justify the butchering of human embryos under any circumstance.

I kind of agree but who will look after the unwanted kids????
What if your daughter of 12 is raped and she gets pregnant??? She should be saddled with a child at that young age?? The Creator said fill the earth but did not say fill it with misery. So if this embryo is aborted should it be dumped or used to create some good???? If some one is dead should the organs be used to save life or dumped???



this isnt blind assumption if that is what you are implying....i have read and researched enough on it...and i understand my counterparts stand, but it is not my stance.

some things are simple vicky, BUT...THERE IS NOTHING COMPLEX ABOUT THE BUTCHERING OF HUMAN EMBRYOS!
you are one i see to wait til the opinnion suits the time, to be right...
there is no time to be right for a wrong solution!

I never said that. I don't know enough about it so I am keeping the option open. The scientist don't know enough that’s why it’s called research.

[Alien]

The reality is, the checks and balance doesn’t work. Proof teenage pregnancy, abortions homeless kids, and kids to fare below the poverty level. I say what are you doing about it. Just saying someone needs to do something or doing it. Just having a few birthday parties does nothing lasting for the kids. I have a small 3 bed 1 bath (the 3rd bed was an extra room on the car port converted into a bed room) there are 9 people living there not all blood related. Some are there because they are blood related others because they are friends that have no place else to go. It was 10 but the young woman was able to convince her mother to take care of her daughter in Long Island. The young woman sleeps in our room on an air mattress. If we all were our brother and sisters keeper the world would be a better place.
but we do have checks and balances, and if you are looking to a quick divine answer to an ongoing problem you wont get it, becasue it is not realistic.
we should all strive to be our brothers keeper, and better citizens.


Telling politicians they need to do something is 1 thing but a kid could die waiting.
every adul human being, with the capability of sound reason, knows the importance of life and death!



Who pays the taxes?
bahamian tax payers, government can not run with out taxes, there is no way around that!
but what we do with the taxpayers money is something you have to take council with with your government official!



Ok as long as you don't feel it’s only the women to blame.
it is a societal problem, but the education of women is the key starting point in this ongoing strugle.
we never implied that any one is to blame, just that a very important starting point is with the education and betterment of women


I kind of agree but who will look after the unwanted kids????
What if your daughter of 12 is raped and she gets pregnant??? She should be saddled with a child at that young age?? The Creator said fill the earth but did not say fill it with misery. So if this embryo is aborted should it be dumped or used to create some good???? If some one is dead should the organs be used to save life or dumped???
to me the only way abortion can be justified, is if the mother is in a direct danger for her life.you can not choose the time you are born, or where you are born in or at.


I never said that. I don't know enough about it so I am keeping the option open. The scientist don't know enough that’s why it’s called research.
the scientist know enough to butcher human embryos???
killing human life is all they need to know to start slicing and dicing vicky???
maybe if you were aborted we wouldnt be having this conversation!!!!

[Vicky]

but we do have checks and balances, and if you are looking to a quick divine answer to an ongoing problem you wont get it, because it is not realistic.
we should all strive to be our brothers keeper, and better citizens. [QUOTE]

I did not say we did not have checks and balances I said they are not working.

[QUOTE=yk2bad]every adul human being, with the capability of sound reason, knows the importance of life and death!



bahamian tax payers, government can not run with out taxes, there is no way around that!
but what we do with the taxpayers money is something you have to take council with with your government official!



it is a societal problem, but the education of women is the key starting point in this ongoing strugle.
we never implied that any one is to blame, just that a very important starting point is with the education and betterment of women[QUOTE]

Sorry but education of both sexes is where the starting point should be. Males are just as responsible for pregnancy as females.


[QUOTE=yk2bad]to me the only way abortion can be justified, is if the mother is in a direct danger for her life.you can not choose the time you are born, or where you are born in or at.[QUOTE]

That is your opinion and you are entitled to your opinion no mater how ridiculess it is.


[QUOTE=yk2bad]the scientist know enough to butcher human embryos???
killing human life is all they need to know to start slicing and dicing vicky???
maybe if you were aborted we wouldnt be having this conversation!!!!

If a tree falls in a forest and no on is there to hear it, did it make a sound? If I were aborted would I know the difference. I would have never known life thus I would not know death. If the sperm cell that made me were in a condom we would not be having this conversation ether.

[Alien]

well what is your answer to helping the situation..besides from making vicky the all mighty ruler???

if a tree falls in the forrest and you donthear it...go in the woods tommorrow and you will see the tree has fallen.
just becasue it doesnt happen exactly to you..doesnt make it not happen.
thats why we have people like me..who see the world as full of people with human feelings and emotions, and have compassion for all who live in it!

how dare you say something so evil and cold hearted about human life..."if a tree falls"....evil evil evil!!!!
to guess that we should butcher human beings for the sake of we dont know is animalistic!
shoot first and ask questions later huh vicky??