There are many areas in the Bahamas in which Bahamians are discriminated upon.
I don't support Gambling for many reasons and it is foolishness to divide laws on the basis of race. If it is illegal then end the entire thing. If we had kept our first decision that Gambling was not good for the Bahamas on all sides we would not have to debate this issue of discrimination.

It seems as though we have double-minded leadership in this country.

I have another question, why is that the Bahamian Nationals have to pay taxes but cannot gamble in the casinos? If you live in a democracy then why the people of Bahamaland cannot have a say in the way the government and the way the policies are coordinated. :cry:

I have another question, why is that the Bahamian Nationals have to pay taxes but cannot gamble in the casinos? If you live in a democracy then why the people of Bahamaland cannot have a say in the way the government and the way the policies are coordinated. :cry:

Good question!
But do webshops pay taxes?

I still say move the religious article on the home page(and every other page) and replace it with this aricle!

Who are you? God?

Good question!
But do webshops pay taxes?
I think that it depends where you live. In the States any thing on the internet is tax free, especially if the amount is $30.00 and over. :gi:

Who are you? God?
Wow! I'm sorry if I offended you dude. I did't know that you have to be god to have an opinion in this country. But that is how you black people were trained. Only God or politicians can have opinions. That is the reason I can gamble in the casino but you cannot. In fact I am going to Atlantis tonight. Wanna join me in a game of black jack? Oops I forgot, you can't, your black, with no opinion!

Hi Lincoln:
Welcome to Bahamas Issues Community!

I am preparing my next article for August 5th in which I will address our casino laws. However, I will briefly comment on what you have shared.

First of all, I believe you would agree with me that discrimination is not always bad. To determine whether it is bad, you have to consider each case on its merits.

You referred to Article 15 of the constitution and made a general conclusion that in that article are grounds to successfully fight our gambling laws that discriminate against the participation of Bahamians. In my view, your conclusions are incorrect. For the benefit of all considering this, here is what Article 15 says:

15.- Whereas every person in The Bahamas is entitled to the fundamental rights and freedoms of the individual, that is to say, has the right, whatever his race, place of origin, political opinions, colour, creed or sex, but subject to respect for the rights and freedoms of others and for the public interest, to each and all of the following, namely-
(a) life, liberty, security of the person and the protection of the law;
(b) freedom of conscience, of expression and of assembly and association; and
(c) protection for the privacy of his home and other property and from deprivation of property without compensation, the subsequent provisions of this Chapter shall have effect for the purpose of affording protection to the aforesaid rights and freedoms subject to such limitations of that protection as are contained in those provisions, being limitations designed to ensure that the enjoyment of the said rights and freedoms by any individual does not prejudice the rights and freedoms of others or the public interest.

There is no fundamental right or freedom listed above that is remotely connected to the right or freedom to gamble simply because gambling is not a fundamental right. Also, I believe that the government can successfully argue that not allowing Bahamians to legally gamble is in the public interest. This is especially true as it relates to casino gambling because there is the risk of massive losses by Bahamians patronizing casinos which will result in the exodus of US Dollars and put at risk the parity we enjoy between the Bahamian Dollar and the US Dollar.

Also, have you considered Article 26 of the Constitution? It actually validates and makes legal our discriminatory gambling laws (especially Article 26-(4)(e):

26.- (1) Subject to the provision of paragraph (4), (5) and (9) of this Article no law shall make any provision which is discriminatory either of itself or in its effect.
(2) Subject to the provisions of paragraphs (6), (9) and (10) of this Article, no person shall be treated in a discriminatory manner by any person acting by virtue of any written law or in the performance of the function of any public office or any public authority.
(3) In this Article, the expression "discriminatory" means affording different treatment to different person attributable wholly or mainly to their respective descriptions by race, place of origin political opinions colour or creed whereby person of one such description are subjected to disabilities or restrictions to which person of another such description are not made subject or are accorded privileges or advantages which are not accorded to persons of another such description.
(4) Paragraph (1) of this Article shall not apply to any law so far as that law makes provision-
(a) for the appropriation of revenues or other funds of The Bahamas or for the imposition of taxation (including the levying of feed for the grant of licenses); or
(b) with respect to the entry into or exclusion from, or the employment, engaging in any business or profession, movement of residence within, The Bahamas of persons who are not citizens of The Bahamas; or
(c) with respect to adoption, marriage, divorce, burial, devolution f property on death or other matters of personal law; or
(d) whereby persons of any such description as is mentioned in paragraph (3) for this Article may be subjected to any disability or restriction or may be accorded any privilege or advantage which having regard to its nature and to special circumstances pertaining to those persons or to persons of any other such description, is reasonably justifiable in a democratic society; or
(e) for authorizing the granting of licenses or certificates permitting the conduct of a lottery, the keeping of a gaming house or the carrying on of gambling in any of its forms subject to conditions which impose upon persons who are citizens of The Bahamas disabilities or restriction to which other persons are not made subject.

It seems to me that you and those with you would be ill advised to test our gambling laws because the Constitution clearly says that those laws can restrict Bahamians while not restricting others. If you and those with you do test our laws, the only way that I can see you winning in court is if our judges decide to follow the activist example of USA judges who impose their agenda on laws and by extension on society.

Lincoln, the bottom line is you can’t argue with the constitution. It makes our discriminatory gambling laws legal. If The Bahamian Constitution was amended to say that women are 2nd class citizens, women cannot successully go to court and petition the court to say they are not. In our democracy, the Constitution is supreme over the Executive, Judiciary and Legislature. So my friend, if you wish to be able to gamble legally, it seems to me that you have two viable options:
1. Try to convince the PLP government who currently enjoy the majority to pass legislation allowing Bahamians to gamble like non-Bahamians, or
2. Try to get enough support to amend the constitution to take out Article 26-(4)(e).
Though we claim to be a Christian nation, I have no doubt that a majority of Bahamians would support revoking Clause 26-(4)(e) to allow them to be able to gamble and get a chance to win other people’s money that they did not work for. The sad thing is that if you asked these same people if they want to retain the preamble to the constitution with “Christian Values” and get rid of Clause 26-(4)(e), the overwhelming majority would vote yes to both. This helps to show that our contradictory definition of Christian is not the Bible’s.

May the Lord help us.

Wow! I'm sorry if I offended you dude. I did't know that you have to be god to have an opinion in this country. But that is how you black people were trained. Only God or politicians can have opinions. That is the reason I can gamble in the casino but you cannot. In fact I am going to Atlantis tonight. Wanna join me in a game of black jack? Oops I forgot, you can't, your black, with no opinion!


what do you mean you black people? but always remember this what goes into the dark will come out to the light. you are no special than anybody else. this site was made for the people by the people and if you don't like what someone says then leave before you get burn. it's ignorance like that, that can get you killed because ignorance is bliss. :hot:

what do you mean you black people? but always remember this what goes into the dark will come out to the light. you are no special than anybody else. this site was made for the people by the people and if you don't like what someone says then leave before you get burn. it's ignorance like that, that can get you killed because ignorance is bliss. :hot:

Ignore that fool Brittany.

Hi Cedric, thanks for welcoming me. I'll get straight to the point. Discrimination is always wrong when done based on your race, nationality, place of origin, sex- ALWAYS. You said that I am wrong 'in your opinion' but your argument has failed to prove me wrong. Infact it only solidifide my points.
Article 15 of the constitution ensures us fundamental rights of life, LIBERTY etc. This LIBERTY cannot be discriminated upon because of race, place of origin etc. Yes, we do have a liberty to gamble if others legally can. And I strongly dought that the government can argue that keeping gambling prohibited for bahamians is in the public intrest. Why? Because you cannot say that something is a treat to public interest if it is legally allowed in the society and not seen as a threat to the extent that it is allowed. For example, to say that drugs are bad for society but we should allow foreigners to do it in our society would be hypocritical.
You talk about exodus of Dollars but what about the exodus of dollars to lotteries in florida and else where. Oh, and do you think that bahamians are not going to Vegas and Indian reservations to gamble.

You need to consider article 26 again. It only solidifies my point.
Its says:
26.- (1) Subject to the provision of paragraph (4), (5) and (9) of this Article no law shall make any provision which is discriminatory either of itself or in its effect. (2) Subject to the provisions of paragraphs (6), (9) and (10) of this Article, no person shall be treated in a discriminatory manner by any person acting by virtue of any written law or in the performance of the function of any public office or any public authority.
(3) In this Article, the expression "discriminatory" means affording different treatment to different person attributable wholly or mainly to their respective descriptions by race, place of origin political opinions colour or creed whereby person of one such description are subjected to disabilities or restrictions to which person of another such description are not made subject or are accorded privileges or advantages which are not accorded to persons of another such description.

So this law agrees with me that you cannot afford indifferent treatment as described above.
Apparntly you did not read Article 26(4)(e) properly. I'll revisit it for you. You wrongly assume that it gives legal rights for discriminating against bahamians when it comes to gaming etc. IT DOES NOT. It reads:
(4) Paragraph (1) of this Article shall not apply to any law so far as that law makes provision-
(e) for authorizing the granting of licenses or certificates permitting the conduct of a lottery, the keeping of a gaming house or the carrying on of gambling in any of its forms subject to conditions which impose upon persons who are citizens of The Bahamas disabilities or restriction to which other persons are not made subject.

Cedric, The above is concerned with the granting of Licenses and Certificates. Do tourist need a licence or certificate to gamble in the casino? NO! So obviously this is not simply talking about the right to gamble. This is talking about-among other things- Licensing of gaming houses etc.

The crux of the matter is even if the constitution authorize discrimination against bahamians in this regard that does not make it right. You can challenge the constitution or any other law. History has proven this.
Slavery was legally justified. Can you then say that a slave was wrong or incorrect for escaping the plantation for freedom.
Segregation was legally justified but can you say that MLK was incorrect in his belief that it was wrong.
If the constitution said that women are second class citizens then it is in that regard invalid and powerless and ripe to be challenged.
As a son of God you should be carful what you say. There may be a time when the constitution is inconflict with God's way- What then. Will you say you can't argue with the Law.
It sounds like you would have been one of those who bowed when the three hebrew boys chose to be thrown in the fiery furnace.
It sounds like you would have not prayed where Daniel chose to be thrown in the lions den.

There are many ways to fight injust laws, and practices. The lazy way- the church way- is to wait for the politicians do do something about it. The other way is civil disobedience and challenging it in court. The courts decision then decomes law.
Cedric, this is not the time for cowards or religious quacks who would justify unjust laws for their own purpose. I see you as a person willing to fight against injustice. I supported you when you spoke out against that false revival in the land the other day. I even called you to express my support for you. We must see out injustice where ever it my hide and exterminate it!

what do you mean you black people? but always remember this what goes into the dark will come out to the light. you are no special than anybody else. this site was made for the people by the people and if you don't like what someone says then leave before you get burn. it's ignorance like that, that can get you killed because ignorance is bliss. :hot:
Brittany, While I agree that mark's comments border on being racist. There is some truth in what he said. To ignore him would be to ignore the truth- that is easy. But the better way is to eat the meat and spit out the bones. I totally agree with him in his opinion of the attitude of black Bahamians. You told him that he is no special than anybody else but I think he was showing you that this discriminatory law wrongfully makes him more special than other bahamians And he was apparently trying to encourage Black Bahamians to have an opinion.
If you take away a man's opinion you take away his dominion.

Brittany, While I agree that mark's comments border on being racist. There is some truth in what he said. To ignore him would be to ignore the truth- that is easy. But the better way is to eat the meat and spit out the bones. I totally agree with him in his opinion of the attitude of black Bahamians. You told him that he is no special than anybody else but I think he was showing you that this discriminatory law wrongfully makes him more special than other bahamians And he was apparently trying to encourage Black Bahamians to have an opinion.
If you take away a man's opinion you take away his dominion.

Well said, Lincoln! Sometimes we have to listen, even when we don't like the words. That way we grow, learn and become better. I hope we all have the ability to "eat the meat and spit out the bone." If not we should develop that skill.

Brittany, While I agree that mark's comments border on being racist. There is some truth in what he said. To ignore him would be to ignore the truth- that is easy. But the better way is to eat the meat and spit out the bones. I totally agree with him in his opinion of the attitude of black Bahamians. You told him that he is no special than anybody else but I think he was showing you that this discriminatory law wrongfully makes him more special than other bahamians And he was apparently trying to encourage Black Bahamians to have an opinion.
If you take away a man's opinion you take away his dominion.



I UNDERSTAND THE MEAT AND BONE EXAMPLE BUT IF ANYBODY IS GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE THE RACISTS REMARKS HAVE TO STOP BECAUSE THAT WILL NOT SOLVE ANY PROBLEMS. :sparky:

Lincoln:

Article 26 clearly authorizes the discrimination you are complaining about with regard to who can own gambling operations and possibly authorizes discrimination concerning who can patronize them. I believe these words that you did not highlight in (4)(e) ("the carrying on of gambling in any of its forms") are broad and far reaching and they cover the whole practice of gambling, and could include participants as well.

Even if the above article does not authorize restricting Bahamians from gambling, while allowing non-Bahamians, I believe the public interest clause can be used. But lets not debate this point since it's a matter for the courts.

You have to agree that the consitution does allow the refusal of granting gambling licences to Bahamians while granting them to non-Bahamians.

On the matter of the constitution, you seem to be missing the point. I suggest you speak with a lawyer about whether you can challenge the constitution of a nation in court. The obvious answer is no, because if there is something higher than the constitution then that "something" needs to be our constitution.

You can certainly protest certain provisions in the constitution but no court can change our constitution. Parliament can't even do that.

If our constitution contains provisions that are wrong according to God's word, I will disobey them and do the right thing and face the consequences.

However, in this matter, there is no problem with the constitution. You would have to take issue with our gambling laws, but not on the point that they are illegal because they are not. Our gambling laws certainly discriminate but they are not illegal. We have many laws that discriminate(who can marry, who can have legal sex, vote, drive a car etc.) and other laws based on subjective criteria, like smoking one kind of leaf is legal (tobacco) but smoking another kind (marijuana) is illegal.

I conclude by saying that discrimination is not always bad and I would hate to live in a society that was totally absent of discrimination. Such a society would be anarchy because the only way to not discriminate is to have no laws. ALL LAWS DISCRIMINATE! Fortunately, the civilized world agrees upon the fundamentals of what is bad discrimination - things like race, nationality and gender. Others like who can or can't gamble are not in that category.

Well all I have to say on the matter is, if a consitution or law sais that we cannot gamble if we want to, then that is a dumb consitution or law made by MORONS.

I seem to remember that years ago there was a small Casino called the Bahamian Club? It used to be on West Bay St. not far from Xavier's School. My parents, who were residents at the time, used to go there to gamble along with their Bahamian friends. I could be wrong about that. Possibly there is someone older that I who remembers those days when, I think, Bahamians could gamble, legally. However, I am sure that they excluded Black Bahamians as was the "thinking" at the time - not because of gambling, but for other "reasons!"

Yet, there was one place I know Bahamians, of all colours and stripes of society, were allowed to gamble, The Hobby Horse Hall Race Track. I know, I worked there. So gambling was not always closed to Bahamians. It could be argued that, as it was once legal, it could be made so again. It could also be asked why that right was taken from us - if it indeed was! There seems to be some doubt about that from Lincoln's view.