Lincoln, Lincoln. You disappoint me being an ex-police in all. The law of Bahamians not gambling in the casino is not ILLEGAL. Did we all forget that the hotels are PRIVATE PROPERTIES, did we forget that these people pay for gambling licenses? and can select who and what type of people they allow in their PRIVATE RESORTS.
When it comes to private property technically what you are saying is it is ILLEGAL for you to tell me I cant come on your private property what you paying the government taxes for? There are clubs around town that have women dancing nude but they dont allow the police inside when they come knocking, they have to get a warrant. Is that DISCRIMINATION? If I choose to not open my door to the Jehovah Witness (who are Bahamians) IS that DISCRIMINATION?
All of these places are private property and they can allow anyone they want to into their premises, Bahamian or not. We need to realize we are living in reality here if 'regular Bahamians' had money to openly spend on a daily basis (I mean about $500.00-$1000.00) gambling dont you think we would be gambling in the casino, but because the regular everyday Bahamian dont have that type of money to spend then I too would not allow him entry into my private property. This is a business not a game of friendship for these investors its about making money.
DISCRIMINATION is a harsh word, That would mean no Bahamians should be allowed in the casino for no reason, no black man should be allowed in the casino, thats discrimination, not allowed to partake in a scheme to make money quickly, a scheme that the Bahamas has no stake in. I would you bet you, no pun intended, that if a Bahamian came up with the money(black, white or paper Bahamian) of obtaining a gambling license he would be granted one and if he allowed Bahamians to gamble that would be his God given right, WOULD YOU THEN HAVE THIS SILLY NOTION THAT IS DISCRIMINATION THEN?So Lincoln when talking about the law you have to read the fine prints with that thing called technicality.

FLO-MO ALUMNI. :D

Hi Chardee
Thanks for your input. Of course you know that I am very well informed when it comes to the law. That said I regret to inform you that the hotels/casinos in question are not private places. By law they are considered public places. A public place by legal definition is any place to which the public has access. For them to be considered private places they would have to be restricted to members only like a country club. I know that is technical but its the law. That is why Bahamians can be restricted from gambling but cannot be restricted from entering the casino.
Trust me, bahamians have do $500-$1000 to spend as they wish. On any give friday come with me to Bay Street. I will show you the regular patterns of some of them. They go to the bank, then to the liquor store then to hoffers, then to polo etc. Money is not their problem.
Flooo MO Yooou Know

there is the risk of massive losses by Bahamians patronizing casinos which will result in the exodus of US Dollars and put at risk the parity we enjoy between the Bahamian Dollar and the US Dollar.:D

Cedric, the above statement is a direct result of our brain washing. See, my issue is not just allowing bahamians to gamble and we live happily ever after. I have a problem with the fact that Bahamians are not allowed to own the most valuable part of their number one industry. Even If ten thousand of us put our money together and decided to own a casino hotel- the countries biggest private employer and money maker- we can't. Gambling is so bad that we cannot own a casino- but we can be the niggers working in them. Hmmm, they are bad so we can't own them, but we can work in them. that doesn't add up. If we were allowed to own them then the money would not go out of the country CEDRIC! But as a people we are not trained to own. We are train to go to school get certifide then get a job working for the white man- directly or indirectly.
What if you came to my house to play monopoly but before we start I tell you that you are not allowed to own broad walk or park place or any property on that strip for that matter? Would that be a fair game? I am sure you would protest or refuse to play. But I am sorry this is the real world. We can't just walk away from the table. You must play whether you want to or not. They love the fact that we choose to just continue playing while keeping silent leaving them with the monopoly on our number one industry.
WAKE UP FOR CHRIST SAKE!
WAKE UP BAHAMIANS!
SLAVERY IS OVER!
FREEDOM IS A MUST!


PS
By law bahamians are not allowed to own a casino property. However Sol did not meet his quota so he made up for it by getting the money from bahamians by offering them shares in the casino property- I thought that was illegal! Oh I forgot the Laws are only for us and are to be twisted when ever necessary to profit the others.
again I say WAKE UP!

Hi Lincoln:

You seem to be blending many issues together (gambling, white/black issues, slavery, economic empowerment, level playing field etc). I think you need to disect each one and try to objectively address them in separate threads.

On the matter of gambling, I believe you are getting the point. You are now using the word unfair and ceased using illegal. I agree with this change in your argument because there is a huge difference.

I would agree with you that not allowing Bahamians to own casinos in favour of non-Bahamians is unfair. However, it is NOT illegal because Article 26-(4)(e) authorizes this discrimination. This point is clear and not open to successful refutation. As I mentioned to you, going to court on the ownership issue would be pointless because the court will read Article 26-(4)(e) to you, dismiss your application and make you pay costs.

Again, as I said before, if you and others wish to legally own gambling operations, you have one of two options:

1. Lobby parliament to change the law to allow Bahamians to own them, or
2. Lobby for a consitituional amendment to remove Article 26-(4)(e). Then you can go to court and hopefully be successful in a discrimination case.

Now lets move on to the patronizing of gambling operations.

On this point, I believe these words in the aforementioned Article ("the carrying on of gambling in any of its forms") are broad enough to also cover patronizing gambling operations. If I'm correct, the government is empowered to pass laws to restrict Bahamians from gambling. However, even if my interpretation of these words is too broad, I believe the government can successfully use the "public interest" argument to support its restriction against Bahamians. The exchange control point is a sound one under the current arrangement because only non-Bahamians have legal licenses to operate casinos and only non-Bahamians are legally authorized to gamble. The obvious result is that our economy is not directly affected either way. But Lincoln, on the point of restricting Bahamians from patronizing legal gambling operations, we need not debate it because it's interpretation is really a matter for the courts.

In your initial thread, you attempted to liken the practise of casting lots in the Bible to gambling for money. The two are very different. I support flipping a coin (modern day casting lots) to determine who will bat first in baseball or who will kickoff in football. Why? Because the motivation is to be fair. On the other hand, I do not support people wagering money or property and flipping the same coin...that's gambling and it is fueled by the sinful motivations of greed and selfishness...all of the sane participants are hoping to win the money/property of the others.

When bringing the Bible into the discussion, you seem to rely on the fact that the Word of God does not specifically say: "Thou shalt not gamble" or any other direct words for that matter. You seem to take the view that as long as the Bible does not specifically say "don't" about a particular thing then you can do it. That is flawed reasoning because the Bible was never intended to be a rule book that addresses every single human activity over the spectrum of all civilizations (it would be a bibiopedia in volumes like an encyclopedia and we would need a suitcase to carry it). You also overlook the fact that the Bible does not expressly tell us to gamble but it does tell us to work to earn a living. It also tells us to love our neighbour as we love ourself. It also warns us about the dangers of greed, the desire for quick money, and coveting what belongs to others.

Lincoln, the sign of spiritual maturity is not being guided only by what is written in black and white. Spiritual maturity is being able to take what is written in black and white and faithfully apply it in situations not addressed in black and white in a manner that is compatible with what is written. It is for this reason that I can emphatically say that the practise of gambling, the values it represents and the results it produces, are all incompatible with the Word of God and the way of Christ's kingdom. Therefore, those who name the name of Christ would be wise to stay far away from it.

Perhaps when you address the other issues (white/black issues, slavery, economic empowerment, level playing field etc.), I will have the opportunity to contribute some thoughts.

Take care, my friend.

Lincoln, one other thing...you said:

"PS
By law bahamians are not allowed to own a casino property. However Sol did not meet his quota so he made up for it by getting the money from bahamians by offering them shares in the casino property- I thought that was illegal! Oh I forgot the Laws are only for us and are to be twisted when ever necessary to profit the others.
again I say WAKE UP!"

Lincoln, you are still misunderstanding our laws about gambling. The government's decision to approve the purchase of Kerzner shares by Bahamians is within their authority to do. Remember: Article 26-(4)(e) of the Bahamas constitution allows laws to be made that restrict Bahamians in "the carrying on of gambling in any of its forms" and discrimination CANNOT be cited. Obviously, by this Article the government also has the power if it so chooses to allow Bahamians to outrightly own casinos and to gamble in them so it can't be illegal when they approve the Kerzner share purchase.

You can call this unfair (an opinion you are entitled to) but you cannot correctly call it illegal because it simply is not. So Lincoln, to use your own words, I think you're the one who has to wake up on this.

Lincoln, one other thing...you said:

"PS
By law bahamians are not allowed to own a casino property. However Sol did not meet his quota so he made up for it by getting the money from bahamians by offering them shares in the casino property- I thought that was illegal! Oh I forgot the Laws are only for us and are to be twisted when ever necessary to profit the others.
again I say WAKE UP!"

Lincoln, you are still misunderstanding our laws about gambling. The government's decision to approve the purchase of Kerzner shares by Bahamians is within their authority to do. Remember: Article 26-(4)(e) of the Bahamas constitution allows laws to be made that restrict Bahamians in "the carrying on of gambling in any of its forms" and discrimination CANNOT be cited. Obviously, by this Article the government also has the power if it so chooses to allow Bahamians to outrightly own casinos and to gamble in them so it can't be illegal when they approve the Kerzner share purchase.

You can call this unfair (an opinion you are entitled to) but you cannot correctly call it illegal because it simply is not. So Lincoln, to use your own words, I think you're the one who has to wake up on this.




I have a question, besides being a minister are you a lawyer? :biggie:

AmericanPhemmefatale:

No, I'm not a lawyer. Why do you ask?

Cedric weren't you once in banking?

AmericanPhemmefatale:

No, I'm not a lawyer. Why do you ask?

I asked the question, because I've never known ministers or clergymen get involved with politics. You keep mentioning the article in your country's constitution, like you are the esquire of a law firm or something.

AmericanPhemmefatale there is a big difference between being involved politics and knowing the laws that governs ones country. But you are an american right? What about Jesse jackson or Al Sharpton? They are supposed to be religous leaders but are extremely political (or at least were). Just adding to the conversation :)

p.s. i'm not saying that Cedric isn't involved in politics because that isn't known to me but it always good to know your rights and what not. :) (yes, i like to smile)

i never knew we had laws, since noone follows them or enforces them, hardly. Ofcourse im a little stuck on the traffic law side of it, as its rediculous driving in Nassau!

lol naw, more people follow laws than you think Rory. Besides i'll be recieving my license when i get back from Trinidad & Tobago and your horror stories aren't helping any :'( ...lol

:friday:

Just be ready for all out war on the roads of Nassau, that how people drive here! Best time to drive is like 5am in the AM, noone on the streets :-)

And this is coming from an ex London Mini cab driver, and a motorcylist who rode in Ney York City, and down from there to Florida and all over for a while.If you live/drive in the far east or west of nassau/NP it is okay but its driving in the rest that is like pulling teeth.

Lincoln, Lincoln. You disappoint me being an ex-police in all. The law of Bahamians not gambling in the casino is not ILLEGAL. Did we all forget that the hotels are PRIVATE PROPERTIES, did we forget that these people pay for gambling licenses? and can select who and what type of people they allow in their PRIVATE RESORTS.
When it comes to private property technically what you are saying is it is ILLEGAL for you to tell me I cant come on your private property what you paying the government taxes for? There are clubs around town that have women dancing nude but they dont allow the police inside when they come knocking, they have to get a warrant. Is that DISCRIMINATION? If I choose to not open my door to the Jehovah Witness (who are Bahamians) IS that DISCRIMINATION?
All of these places are private property and they can allow anyone they want to into their premises, Bahamian or not. We need to realize we are living in reality here if 'regular Bahamians' had money to openly spend on a daily basis (I mean about $500.00-$1000.00) gambling dont you think we would be gambling in the casino, but because the regular everyday Bahamian dont have that type of money to spend then I too would not allow him entry into my private property. This is a business not a game of friendship for these investors its about making money.
DISCRIMINATION is a harsh word, That would mean no Bahamians should be allowed in the casino for no reason, no black man should be allowed in the casino, thats discrimination, not allowed to partake in a scheme to make money quickly, a scheme that the Bahamas has no stake in. I would you bet you, no pun intended, that if a Bahamian came up with the money(black, white or paper Bahamian) of obtaining a gambling license he would be granted one and if he allowed Bahamians to gamble that would be his God given right, WOULD YOU THEN HAVE THIS SILLY NOTION THAT IS DISCRIMINATION THEN?So Lincoln when talking about the law you have to read the fine prints with that thing called technicality.

FLO-MO ALUMNI. :D
even if a person owns property/ business within a country it is still subject to the laws of the land or at least should be. If businesses are above the law which is otherwise enforced, then there is no justice in that. the point today is that the gambling law itself is distorted. back in the day when blacks were only allowed in marked places for blacks only, even in private owned restaurants, buidings; do you think this was fair? There was a double standard. A white person in the same country had more rights than a black. In this gambling situation, even foreigners have a right to what we do not have a right to in our own country.NO FAIR

Hi Lincoln:

You seem to be blending many issues together (gambling, white/black issues, slavery, economic empowerment, level playing field etc). I think you need to disect each one and try to objectively address them in separate threads.
Everything is connected especially these issues. our refusal to see this is our greatest downfall as a people.


I would agree with you that not allowing Bahamians to own casinos in favour of non-Bahamians is unfair. However, it is NOT illegal because Article 26-(4)(e) authorizes this discrimination.I realized that we were in agreement from your firsts comments. Your problem is you are admittingly a novice in issues of law but you choose to argue a definition of the law with some one well learnt and experienced in law. Like you said, your definitions and assumptions of the law are to broad and submitting. It clearly shows me that you do not know your rights.
Since you agree that it is unfair then you would be wrong to disagree with me about changing these dumb laws. I do not gamble. neither am I interested in owning a casino. My problem is with the deep roots of discimination and opression that you know nothing about. There is alot going on that you do not understand cedric.

In your initial thread, you attempted to liken the practise of casting lots in the Bible to gambling for money. The two are very different. I support flipping a coin (modern day casting lots) to determine who will bat first in baseball or who will kickoff in football. Why? Because the motivation is to be fair. On the other hand, I do not support people wagering money or property and flipping the same coin...that's gambling and it is fueled by the sinful motivations of greed and selfishness...all of the sane participants are hoping to win the money/property of the others.
Cedric, there are ways to make the start of a game fair without flipping a coin. Like jump ball- which leaves it to skill, a volley, or alternating who goes first every time the teams meet.
Hoping to get someone elses money/property is not necessarily greed. When you work for someone your aim is to get their property. I hope then to never hear of you playing the stock market cause it is the same.


When bringing the Bible into the discussion, you seem to rely on the fact that the Word of God does not specifically say: "Thou shalt not gamble" or any other direct words for that matter..
You seem to have a gift for misjudging. You will note that I never argued or implied that point. There are people who take that argument but I am deeper than that. Look at my words again and you will see that as with the law you missed.
Again- Freedom is a must!