Theology of Weather.

[CG]

I post this as food for thought.

From ancient times man has believed that as the gods live in the sky (particularly the "good" ones) they controlled the weather and used it to reward or punish mankind. Thor (Norse god of thunder and rain. Pictured as wielding a hammer emblematic of the thunderbolt) and Jehovah (the Judeo-Christian god) used thunder bolts to shrike down bad people (and occasionally good people when their aim was off.) Both Thor and Jehovah control the winds and used them to punish and even kill people.

Rain gods were important to bring the rains to grow the crops. Sacrifices, some times human ones, were offered to the rain god and when the rain did not come in time it was assumed that the people had sinned, or fail to sacrifice properly. What I am trying to point out is that gods and the weather have been closely associated. Yet, that was in times past. What about today?

During and after the last storm, Frances, I listen to the radio for almost two days nonstop! I heard people praying to God for help and protection. One particularly moving incident was a call from someone in California to a station in Nassau. The young lady caller had heard about the storm and was concerned about the people here. She knew no one here, in fact I think she said she had never been here, but she was concerned - she offered a prayer. It was a most welcome one, but it was directed at a god that, according to the Bible, had made the storm. Why should we pray to a god who is trying to blow us off the face of the earth? Why should we give thanks for his mercy? If he was merciful he would have not sent the storm in the first place.

Prayers of thanks are still going up to heaven. What are you praying for? Think about it for a minute........Were it not for the modern tracking systems, Hurricane hunter planes, warning systems, building codes and all the other defenses man has made to protect us, God's storm would have crept up on us and thousands could have been killed. If prayers are offered let them be not for Gods mercy, but for man's intelligence to fight the "thunder bolts of the gods."

You might ask how a Buddhist looks at all this? They would say that hurricanes happen! They are "designed" to move warm air and energy from the equator to the Northen latitudes. They have nothing to do with gods. They are an act of nature, a random, inefficient, cruel, act of nature controlled by no god but are subject to the rotation of this globe.

When the storm is over the Buddhist offers a meditation for the families of those who lost loved ones. He offers chants for those who have suffer psychological damage (and there might well be thousands of such persons.) He offers a mediation for those who suffered damages to their home or Businesses. He offers a chant for those who are alive and well. Then he goes out and helps where he can.

So, for those Christians who are praying and giving thanks, tell me why?

[lukku cairi]

I post this as food for thought.

...Both Thor and Jehovah control the winds and used them to punish and even kill people.

CG, you know that people use deities to explain things that are beyond their understanding or control - and then the religious dogma gets entrenched in the cultural psyche and becomes terribly difficult to dislodge. Humans are control freaks, and we don't like the idea that things exist over which we have no influence whatsoever - so we turn it over to a deity whom we might be able to appease - whether or not that deity was the cause of the phenomenon. This argument could be expanded but I want to move on to other points - the first of which being:

Ironically, if the present rising intensity of the hurricane season has anything to do with global warming (as many climatologists think it does) we DO have a certain amount of power over our own weather - we've just been abusing that power by pouring millions of tons of carbon into the atmosphere and now we're hoist by our own petard, so to speak.

...Why should we pray to a god who is trying to blow us off the face of the earth? Why should we give thanks for his mercy? If he was merciful he would have not sent the storm in the first place.

As I've quoted elsewhere, the American Indians have a proverb: "I asked God for strength, so he sent me troubles to make me strong." To play the devil's advocate (no pun intended) might a deity not put His creation through various trials to see what stuff it's made of? IMHO, (to operate within the Judeo-Christian-Muslim tradition) if Adam and Eve hadn't eaten the fruit of the tree of knowledge, we'd still be in the Garden of Eden, but we wouldn't be HUMAN.

Since human beings are, and always will be, encompassed by the universe (and therefore are a subset of the universe), we will never truly have control over everything that happens to us. Buddhism, I suspect, is a good way to deal with this fact - although I'm not a Buddhist, so I wouldn't know. Another proverb, this time from the Russians: "If you want to make God laugh, tell Him your plans."

Prayers of thanks are still going up to heaven. What are you praying for? Think about it for a minute........Were it not for the modern tracking systems, Hurricane hunter planes, warning systems, building codes and all the other defenses man has made to protect us, God's storm would have crept up on us and thousands could have been killed. If prayers are offered let them be not for Gods mercy, but for man's intelligence to fight the "thunder bolts of the gods."

A third proverb: "Pray to God but row for shore." You could argue (once again, within the J/C/M tradition) that the "fall" in the Garden of Eden - when humans gained the ability to create and develop their own knowledge base - has ultimately enabled us to develop the technologies you described. I have heard it argued that God always intended humans to eat from that tree, and that it was just that we couldn't understand His motivations at the time. After all, if you have a child, do you want the kid to grow up and be able to look after himself, or would you prefer him to remain locked in time, sitting in a high chair and eating baby food?

You might ask how a Buddhist looks at all this? They would say that hurricanes happen! They are "designed" to move warm air and energy from the equator to the Northen latitudes. They have nothing to do with gods. They are an act of nature, a random, inefficient, cruel, act of nature controlled by no god but are subject to the rotation of this globe.

A good point, but (semantically) I'd argue that by this definition nature is not capable of being cruel. Human motivation is required for cruelty. The people who killed all those children in that school in Russia are cruel - they even denied their captives water. That's cruel. If you argue that nature simply functions, then nature itself must only be indifferent.

So, for those Christians who are praying and giving thanks, tell me why?

That's a mean-spirited question, for a Buddhist. Christians pray because it's in their belief system to pray, and it helps them because they believe it helps others. The question of whether God hears Christian prayers, cares, or even exists, is beside the point. You chant because it is in your belief system to chant, and it helps you because you believe it helps others. Would you feel wrong if you didn't chant for the people in distress? So Christians will feel if they don't pray. You are a good person, CG, and you don't like others to suffer. What should matter is not the particulars of religion, but whether the individual practitioner has the human qualities of kindness, practical reliability and concern for others. Any person - Christian or Buddhist - who lacks these qualities, is lacking in humanity.

[12play]

Very well said and, if I may say so.I used to think that the people who prayed for succour or waited for it to fall from heaven were either ignorant or silly. I used to tell anyone who would listen that with our brain we could either solve and manage our problems or make them worse. Prayer and spiritually I concede now is useful psychologically, and even restains are more wicked impulses.If we accepted as official dogma that there was no heaven or hell, what would restrain us from destroying ourselves?

[Vicky]

CG, you know that people use deities to explain things that are beyond their understanding or control - and then the religious dogma gets entrenched in the cultural psyche and becomes terribly difficult to dislodge. Humans are control freaks, and we don't like the idea that things exist over which we have no influence whatsoever - so we turn it over to a deity whom we might be able to appease - whether or not that deity was the cause of the phenomenon. This argument could be expanded but I want to move on to other points - the first of which being:

Ironically, if the present rising intensity of the hurricane season has anything to do with global warming (as many climatologists think it does) we DO have a certain amount of power over our own weather - we've just been abusing that power by pouring millions of tons of carbon into the atmosphere and now we're hoist by our own petard, so to speak.



As I've quoted elsewhere, the American Indians have a proverb: "I asked God for strength, so he sent me troubles to make me strong." To play the devil's advocate (no pun intended) might a deity not put His creation through various trials to see what stuff it's made of? IMHO, (to operate within the Judeo-Christian-Muslim tradition) if Adam and Eve hadn't eaten the fruit of the tree of knowledge, we'd still be in the Garden of Eden, but we wouldn't be HUMAN.

Since human beings are, and always will be, encompassed by the universe (and therefore are a subset of the universe), we will never truly have control over everything that happens to us. Buddhism, I suspect, is a good way to deal with this fact - although I'm not a Buddhist, so I wouldn't know. Another proverb, this time from the Russians: "If you want to make God laugh, tell Him your plans."



A third proverb: "Pray to God but row for shore." You could argue (once again, within the J/C/M tradition) that the "fall" in the Garden of Eden - when humans gained the ability to create and develop their own knowledge base - has ultimately enabled us to develop the technologies you described. I have heard it argued that God always intended humans to eat from that tree, and that it was just that we couldn't understand His motivations at the time. After all, if you have a child, do you want the kid to grow up and be able to look after himself, or would you prefer him to remain locked in time, sitting in a high chair and eating baby food?



A good point, but (semantically) I'd argue that by this definition nature is not capable of being cruel. Human motivation is required for cruelty. The people who killed all those children in that school in Russia are cruel - they even denied their captives water. That's cruel. If you argue that nature simply functions, then nature itself must only be indifferent.



That's a mean-spirited question, for a Buddhist. Christians pray because it's in their belief system to pray, and it helps them because they believe it helps others. The question of whether God hears Christian prayers, cares, or even exists, is beside the point. You chant because it is in your belief system to chant, and it helps you because you believe it helps others. Would you feel wrong if you didn't chant for the people in distress? So Christians will feel if they don't pray. You are a good person, CG, and you don't like others to suffer. What should matter is not the particulars of religion, but whether the individual practitioner has the human qualities of kindness, practical reliability and concern for others. Any person - Christian or Buddhist - who lacks these qualities, is lacking in humanity.

lukku cairi Very good responce to a very good question.
But before you call CG mean spirted you should ask him to make clear his question.

I think I know what he is getting at but I will let him clear it up befor I comment.

[Vicky]

If we accepted as official dogma that there was no heaven or hell, what would restrain us from destroying ourselves?

When solders are in a war they are destroying each other. Few are thinking of heaven or hell. They are thinking kill kill. The idea of heaven and hell is to create fear and hate. Not love and respect for you fellow human being.

You know what I noticed during the hurricane??? On the radio people were helping people. Let me say it again people were helping people.
Nationality race creed color sex or gender did not matter. (Let me through it in sexual orientation or gender identity). Hands were held out to help the hand that reached for it. It did not matter whose hand they came together to help. I hope we learn from this.

[CG]

CG, you know that people use deities to explain things that are beyond their understanding or control - and then the religious dogma gets entrenched in the cultural psyche and becomes terribly difficult to dislodge. Humans are control freaks, and we don't like the idea that things exist over which we have no influence whatsoever - so we turn it over to a deity whom we might be able to appease - whether or not that deity was the cause of the phenomenon. This argument could be expanded but I want to move on to other points - the first of which being:

Ironically, if the present rising intensity of the hurricane season has anything to do with global warming (as many climatologists think it does) we DO have a certain amount of power over our own weather - we've just been abusing that power by pouring millions of tons of carbon into the atmosphere and now we're hoist by our own petard, so to speak.



As I've quoted elsewhere, the American Indians have a proverb: "I asked God for strength, so he sent me troubles to make me strong." To play the devil's advocate (no pun intended) might a deity not put His creation through various trials to see what stuff it's made of? IMHO, (to operate within the Judeo-Christian-Muslim tradition) if Adam and Eve hadn't eaten the fruit of the tree of knowledge, we'd still be in the Garden of Eden, but we wouldn't be HUMAN.

Since human beings are, and always will be, encompassed by the universe (and therefore are a subset of the universe), we will never truly have control over everything that happens to us. Buddhism, I suspect, is a good way to deal with this fact - although I'm not a Buddhist, so I wouldn't know. Another proverb, this time from the Russians: "If you want to make God laugh, tell Him your plans."



A third proverb: "Pray to God but row for shore." You could argue (once again, within the J/C/M tradition) that the "fall" in the Garden of Eden - when humans gained the ability to create and develop their own knowledge base - has ultimately enabled us to develop the technologies you described. I have heard it argued that God always intended humans to eat from that tree, and that it was just that we couldn't understand His motivations at the time. After all, if you have a child, do you want the kid to grow up and be able to look after himself, or would you prefer him to remain locked in time, sitting in a high chair and eating baby food?



A good point, but (semantically) I'd argue that by this definition nature is not capable of being cruel. Human motivation is required for cruelty. The people who killed all those children in that school in Russia are cruel - they even denied their captives water. That's cruel. If you argue that nature simply functions, then nature itself must only be indifferent.



That's a mean-spirited question, for a Buddhist. Christians pray because it's in their belief system to pray, and it helps them because they believe it helps others. The question of whether God hears Christian prayers, cares, or even exists, is beside the point. You chant because it is in your belief system to chant, and it helps you because you believe it helps others. Would you feel wrong if you didn't chant for the people in distress? So Christians will feel if they don't pray. You are a good person, CG, and you don't like others to suffer. What should matter is not the particulars of religion, but whether the individual practitioner has the human qualities of kindness, practical reliability and concern for others. Any person - Christian or Buddhist - who lacks these qualities, is lacking in humanity.

I understand, and mostly, agree with everything you said except for my question. "So, for those Christians who are praying and giving thanks, tell me why?" being mean spirited. If it came across that way that was my mistake. It is a legitimate question. Perhaps it is because Christians have been so ridiculed for their beliefs that they have become somewhat defensive. But they should not be. I think it was St. Paul who said something like, be ready to explain the truth (or hope?) within you. All I ask is, explain! I have given you who follow the Christ a chance to explain - to me and your fellow believers who may be harboring doubts.

I should also point out that Buddhist don't chant to something, or somebody. They chant - in this case for comfort for those who suffered in this storm.

My real question is how can someone thank a god for inflicting such pain? I have spent the day offering help and comfort to those who have suffered. Some of them have asked the same question I asked. I have joined in, or in some cases, instituted, Christian prayers, but I did not think it was right to ask them the question I have asked here, the time was not right. So I ask those on this site to help me understand - or to confirm my understanding.

There is no mean spiritness in my question. If anyone reads it so, I apologize.

[lukku cairi]

lukku cairi Very good responce to a very good question.
But before you call CG mean spirted you should ask him to make clear his question.

I think I know what he is getting at but I will let him clear it up befor I comment.

Vicky, I don't think CG is a mean-spirited person. I understand what he is getting at with his question, but I think he is unintentionally tarring *all* Christians with the morbid supersitions held by only a portion of them. He implies that prayer is a useless act, but then holds up the Buddhist practice of meditation and chanting as virtuous. My point is that, functionally, prayer and chanting *should* be the same thing. It is the intention behind them and the actions that accompany them that provides what is meaningful, not the format.

After all, if I fervently pray to God that I should defeat my enemies in battle, and then go out and slaughter people (like the Janjaweed are doing in Darfur as we speak) am I truly righteous, simply because I invoke a deity? If CG's point is that, in Buddhism, there is no meditation or chant that can justify war and the taking of human life, then his point is valid. Maybe the Christian concept of "prayer" should be more narrowly defined. Unfortunately, it isn't.

[Delroy]

Let me began by bringing something to light. There was a situation in the book of Matthew when Jesus was caught in a Hurricane on the sea. I believe that Jesus is the Son of God. I also believe that God is in “control” of everything (including the weather). If this is the case then we must ask why God would place His only Son in harms way?

I want to make another note that Jesus slept through the storm and was only made aware of it when fear took over those on “the same boat” with Him. “They woke Him up!”

Now why would God allow His only Son to be placed in such a situation? I believe that everything God does and allows is for a purpose. I believe that the purpose of that storm was made clear that day when Jesus demonstrated that He had power over nature when He told the storm to cease and it obeyed. This was God's way of telling us that with Faith we can have power over the elements also.

With every lesson God gives there is always a test that follows.
Here is Jesus testing His disciples who were the very same people that had already witnessed Him quieting a storm.

Matthew 14:22-33
22 Immediately He made the disciples get into the boat and go ahead of Him to the other side, while He sent the crowds away. 23 After He had sent the crowds away, He went up on the mountain by Himself to pray; and when it was evening, He was there alone. 24 But the boat was already a long distance from the land, battered by the waves; for the wind was contrary. 25 And in the fourth watch of the night He came to them, walking on the sea. 26 When the disciples saw Him walking on the sea, they were terrified, and said, "It is a ghost!" And they cried out in fear. 27 But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, "Take courage, it is I; do not be afraid." 28 Peter said to Him, "Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water." 29 And He said, "Come!" And Peter got out of the boat, and walked on the water and came toward Jesus. 30 But "seeing" the wind, he became frightened, and beginning to sink, he cried out, "Lord, save me!" 31 Immediately Jesus stretched out His hand and took hold of him, and said to him, "You of little faith, why did you doubt?" 32 When they got into the boat, the wind stopped. 33 And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly God's Son!"

Notice that when Jesus got into the boat the wind stopped. He could have stopped the wind from the shore but He allowed it to continue to test the Faith of His disciples. Peter was the only one that took a chance at the test. And he only began to sink when he paid attention to the storm instead of Jesus.

You would think that they would all have caught on by now but after this some still did not believe.

I believe that every storm that God allows to come our way is for a reason. In those cases Jesus was trying to teach us Faith and the power of it.

Some storms are brought upon us to identify a problem in our lives that needs to be removed.

Jonah 1:15
So they picked up Jonah, threw him into the sea, and the sea stopped its raging.

Whatever the case; knowing God is key to understanding what He is saying to us.

I believe that this is what God is saying to us.
God doesn't need a Hurricane to punish us like that is His only weapon.
I believe that warning comes before destruction!

I believe that we are on the same boat as Jonah, disobedient and refusing to allow God to direct us. We have a serious leadership problem, not only in the government but also the church the homes. We have allowed the philosophies of men to overshadow the the truth that is in the Word of God and in doing so we have made ourselves God. Therefore terror will come!

Why do I say this?

Psalms 78:22-39
22 Because they believed not in God, And trusted not in his salvation. 23 Yet he commanded the skies above, And opened the doors of heaven; 24 And he rained down manna upon them to eat, And gave them food from heaven. 25 Man did eat the bread of the mighty: He sent them food to the full. 26 He caused the east wind to blow in the heavens; And by his power he guided the south wind. 27 He rained flesh also upon them as the dust, And winged birds as the sand of the seas: 28 And he let it fall in the midst of their camp, Round about their habitations. 29 So they did eat, and were well filled; And he gave them their own desire. 30 They were not estranged from that which they desired, Their food was yet in their mouths, 31 When the anger of God went up against them, And slew of the fattest of them, And smote down the young men of Israel. 32 For all this they sinned still, And believed not in his wondrous works. 33 Therefore their days did he consume in vanity, And their years in terror. 34 When he slew them, then they inquired after him; And they returned and sought God earnestly. 35 And they remembered that God was their rock, And the Most High God their redeemer. 36 But they flattered him with their mouth, And lied unto him with their tongue. 37 For their heart was not right with him, Neither were they faithful in his covenant. 38 But he, being merciful, forgave [their] iniquity, and destroyed [them] not: Yea, many a time turned he his anger away, And did not stir up all his wrath. 39 And he remembered that they were but flesh, A wind that passeth away, and cometh not again.

Sounds like before and after September 11th doesn't it?

Psalms 9:20
Put terror in them, Lord;
let the nations know they are only men.

I believe that the Bahamas will be spared separation from God. I believe that we will find true leadership in every area. And I believe that we will cast Jonah from among us.

[CG]

Vicky, I don't think CG is a mean-spirited person. I understand what he is getting at with his question, but I think he is unintentionally tarring *all* Christians with the morbid supersitions held by only a portion of them.

Of course not ALL Christians think that way, but most do.

He implies that prayer is a useless act,

I never said it was useless. My question even implied that it was a real thing. I only want to know why pray to a god the just tried to kill you? I wonder if Isaac had the same thought???

but then holds up the Buddhist practice of meditation and chanting as virtuous.

Such practice is not virtuous, per say. It must be done with no results in mind. This is a very difficult thing to do - we are not trying to change anything but to accept things as they come along.

My point is that, functionally, prayer and chanting *should* be the same thing. It is the intention behind them and the actions that accompany them that provides what is meaningful, not the format.

Prayer and Meditation are not the same thing. One tried to reach outward to a Deity, to influnce him or to seek help from him.. The other digs inward to the Buddha nature that lies within us all, and to awaken that nature. If anything changes it is the chanter himself.

After all, if I fervently pray to God that I should defeat my enemies in battle, and then go out and slaughter people (like the Janjaweed are doing in Darfur as we speak) am I truly righteous, simply because I invoke a deity?

No, you are not. But many faiths that require a Deity might, under certain circumstances, say you were right.

If CG's point is that, in Buddhism, there is no meditation or chant that can justify war and the taking of human life, then his point is valid.

I guess my point is valid! As far as I know there is no such meditation or Chant in Buddhism that does as you suggest. However, the Bible is full of such things. (See some of the Psalms.)

Maybe the Christian concept of "prayer" should be more narrowly defined. Unfortunately, it isn't.

You might be right!

[CG]

Let me began by bringing something to light. There was a situation in the book of Matthew when Jesus was caught in a Hurricane on the sea. I believe that Jesus is the Son of God. I also believe that God is in "control" of everything (including the weather). If this is the case then we must ask why God would place His only Son in harms way?

I want to make another note that Jesus slept through the storm and was only made aware of it when fear took over those on "the same boat" with Him. "They woke Him up!"

Now why would God allow His only Son to be placed in such a situation? I believe that everything God does and allows is for a purpose. I believe that the purpose of that storm was made clear that day when Jesus demonstrated that He had power over nature when He told the storm to cease and it obeyed. This was God's way of telling us that with Faith we can have power over the elements also.

Then we have no faith? I am sure there were armies of people praying for the storm to stop, but it stopped in its own time.

With every lesson God gives there is always a test that follows.
Here is Jesus testing His disciples who were the very same people that had already witnessed Him quieting a storm.

If Jesus was God then he knew the nature of his disciples, tests would not be necessary

Matthew 14:22-33
22 Immediately He made the disciples get into the boat and go ahead of Him to the other side, while He sent the crowds away. 23 After He had sent the crowds away, He went up on the mountain by Himself to pray; and when it was evening, He was there alone. 24 But the boat was already a long distance from the land, battered by the waves; for the wind was contrary. 25 And in the fourth watch of the night He came to them, walking on the sea. 26 When the disciples saw Him walking on the sea, they were terrified, and said, "It is a ghost!" And they cried out in fear. 27 But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, "Take courage, it is I; do not be afraid." 28 Peter said to Him, "Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water." 29 And He said, "Come!" And Peter got out of the boat, and walked on the water and came toward Jesus. 30 But "seeing" the wind, he became frightened, and beginning to sink, he cried out, "Lord, save me!" 31 Immediately Jesus stretched out His hand and took hold of him, and said to him, "You of little faith, why did you doubt?" 32 When they got into the boat, the wind stopped. 33 And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly God's Son!"

Notice that when Jesus got into the boat the wind stopped. He could have stopped the wind from the shore but He allowed it to continue to test the Faith of His disciples. Peter was the only one that took a chance at the test. And he only began to sink when he paid attention to the storm instead of Jesus.
You would think that they would all have caught on by now but after this some still did not believe.

As they still did not believe why keep testing? It was only after Jesus died that their inward nature gave them the answers.

I believe that every storm that God allows to come our way is for a reason. In those cases Jesus was trying to teach us Faith and the power of it.

What a way to teach!!!!!! It is like holding your kid's hand over the fire, for hours and hours, to teach him that fire is hot!

Some storms are brought upon us to identify a problem in our lives that needs to be removed.

Delroy?????? Shall we look to in enthrals of a goat next?

Jonah 1:15
So they picked up Jonah, threw him into the sea, and the sea stopped its raging.

Whatever the case; knowing God is key to understanding what He is saying to us.

I believe that this is what God is saying to us.
God doesn't need a Hurricane to punish us like that is His only weapon.
I believe that warning comes before destruction!

I believe that we are on the same boat as Jonah, disobedient and refusing to allow God to direct us. We have a serious leadership problem, not only in the government but also the church the homes. We have allowed the philosophies of men to overshadow the the truth that is in the Word of God and in doing so we have made ourselves God. Therefore terror will come!

Why do I say this?

Psalms 78:22-39
22 Because they believed not in God, And trusted not in his salvation. 23 Yet he commanded the skies above, And opened the doors of heaven; 24 And he rained down manna upon them to eat, And gave them food from heaven. 25 Man did eat the bread of the mighty: He sent them food to the full. 26 He caused the east wind to blow in the heavens; And by his power he guided the south wind. 27 He rained flesh also upon them as the dust, And winged birds as the sand of the seas: 28 And he let it fall in the midst of their camp, Round about their habitations. 29 So they did eat, and were well filled; And he gave them their own desire. 30 They were not estranged from that which they desired, Their food was yet in their mouths, 31 When the anger of God went up against them, And slew of the fattest of them, And smote down the young men of Israel. 32 For all this they sinned still, And believed not in his wondrous works. 33 Therefore their days did he consume in vanity, And their years in terror. 34 When he slew them, then they inquired after him; And they returned and sought God earnestly. 35 And they remembered that God was their rock, And the Most High God their redeemer. 36 But they flattered him with their mouth, And lied unto him with their tongue. 37 For their heart was not right with him, Neither were they faithful in his covenant. 38 But he, being merciful, forgave [their] iniquity, and destroyed [them] not: Yea, many a time turned he his anger away, And did not stir up all his wrath. 39 And he remembered that they were but flesh, A wind that passeth away, and cometh not again.

Sounds like before and after September 11th doesn't it?

Psalms 9:20
Put terror in them, Lord;
let the nations know they are only men.

I believe that the Bahamas will be spared separation from God. I believe that we will find true leadership in every area. And I believe that we will cast Jonah from among us.

So all this is because there is a Jonah, or Jonahs, among us? Who are they ? Shall we preform a human sacrifice, which is what Jonah was (almost) what Isaac was (almost) what Jesus was!

How can you worship a god that screams for blood all the time? A god who wants to purge his world of sin, but can't do the job no matter how many lives he takes. A god who sees the only way to solve a problem, or get his message across is to destroy? A god that plays with the lives and sufferings of his own (see the Book of Job.) The god of this mythology is cruel.

However, if you put god aside - the storm was just a storm. It had nothing to do with sin, gods, or evil. It is a storm. It is the nature of the world. There was no message, just a lot of wind.

[Truthseeker]

Then we have no faith? I am sure there were armies of people praying for the storm to stop, but it stopped in its own time.


If Jesus was God then he knew the nature of his disciples, tests would not be necessary


As they still did not believe why keep testing? It was only after Jesus died that their inward nature gave them the answers.


What a way to teach!!!!!! It is like holding your kid's hand over the fire, for hours and hours, to teach him that fire is hot!


Delroy?????? Shall we look to in enthrals of a goat next?



"So all this is because there is a Jonah, or Jonahs, among us? Who are they ? Shall we preform a human sacrifice, which is what Jonah was (almost) what Isaac was (almost) what Jesus was! How can you worship a God that screams for blood all the time? A God who wants to purge his world of sin, but can't do the job no matter how many lives he takes.

The storm has nothing to do with sin, gods, or evil. It is a storm. It is the nature of the world."

If I did not know any better, I would think you are an atheist CG. Maybe when Ivan is upon us, we should throw all the christians, the Council in the stormy seas to satisfy their God Yaweh? Jehovah? El? Elohim? Jesus? Who knows which one just throw them all in the seas with the tidal surge so we can have some peace on earth for a change.

[CG]

If I did not know any better, I would think you are an atheist CG. Maybe when Ivan is upon us, we should throw all the christians, the Council in the stormy seas to satisfy their God Yaweh? Jehovah? El? Elohim? Jesus? Who knows which one just throw them all in the seas with the tidal surge so we can have some peace on earth for a change.

If you define an atheist as someone who does not believe in a higher power then I am not an atheist.

If you define an atheist as a person who does not see the need for a higher power, even if that power exists or not, then I am an atheist. Most Buddhists would fall into this category.

As for throwing some folks into the storm!! That is what the Bible tells us as something that works!!!!!

[Truthseeker]

If you define an atheist as someone who does not believe in a higher power then I am not an atheist.

If you define an atheist as a person who does not see the need for a higher power, even if that power exists or not, then I am an atheist. Most Buddhists would fall into this category.

As for throwing some folks into the storm!! That is what the Bible tells us as something that works!!!!!

This is the very reason we should not take the messages in the bible literally.
Perhaps the storm's useful purpose was to bring people/families together undistracted by the hustle and bustle of everyday living. No watching television but listening to each other maybe for the first time in a long while. Except of course when we weren't listening to Perry Christie run on and on with his long winded responses to question put to him by the media. Could not he have just imployed the KISS principle. Keep It Short Stupid.
ZNS created a one hour show just from two questions by Michelle Malcolm to Perry Christie. I have never known a man who is more in love with his own voice than Perry. Just had to get that off my chest!

[CG]

This is the very reason we should not take the messages in the bible literally.
Perhaps the storm's useful purpose was to bring people/families together undistracted by the hustle and bustle of everyday living. No watching television but listening to each other maybe for the first time in a long while. Except of course when we weren't listening to Perry Christie run on and on with his long winded responses to question put to him by the media. Could not he have just imployed the KISS principle. Keep It Short Stupid.
ZNS created a one hour show just from two questions by Michelle Malcolm to Perry Christie. I have never known a man who is more in love with his own voice than Perry. Just had to get that off my chest!

He sounded like he was running for office!

But truthfully, I would not want his job now! I did not vote for him, but he still is my PM. I will keep good thoughts for him as he (and the many others) go about trying to put the islands back together. I am sure all of us will do the same.

[Delroy]

Then we have no faith? I am sure there were armies of people praying for the storm to stop, but it stopped in its own time.

How many people were killed by Frances? None!
The only people who died "during" this storm died as a result of circumstance.

Would you place that on the account of prayer CG? Seeing what happened in Honduras just a few years ago and thousands of people died from a weaker hurricane than Frances.

If Jesus was God then he knew the nature of his disciples, tests would not be necessary

The tests that God gives are not for Him to know our nature but are for us to know ours. He uses them so that we can identify our own condition.

As they still did not believe why keep testing? It was only after Jesus died that their inward nature gave them the answers.

You should know the answer to this CG.
Why do we keep going back to school? Why do we take the same exams over again that we previously failed? Because we desire to pass and move to another level of education.

What a way to teach!!!!!! It is like holding your kid's hand over the fire, for hours and hours, to teach him that fire is hot!

Have you ever been to a Military training camp? To help create an atmosphere of War, the trainers shoot guns over the heads of heads of the soldiers. They blow up bombs and tanks with real ammo (some methods are even hidden from the public).

God also creates an atmosphere of War for His disciples but the difference here is that we don't fight guns with tanks or bombs, we fight with Faith and our battle is a spiritual one.

So all this is because there is a Jonah, or Jonahs, among us? Who are they ? Shall we preform a human sacrifice, which is what Jonah was (almost) what Isaac was (almost) what Jesus was!

How can you worship a god that screams for blood all the time? A god who wants to purge his world of sin, but can't do the job no matter how many lives he takes. A god who sees the only way to solve a problem, or get his message across is to destroy? A god that plays with the lives and sufferings of his own (see the Book of Job.) The god of this mythology is cruel.

However, if you put god aside - the storm was just a storm. It had nothing to do with sin, gods, or evil. It is a storm. It is the nature of the world. There was no message, just a lot of wind.

CG you should know me good enough by now to know that I am not speaking of a physical person or persons when I say Jonah (even though there are some people that need to be thrown in the sea).

I am speaking of a spiritual Jonah. Our condition as it now stands needs to be cast into the ocean. We need follow God's direction and not our own. God told us to go to Nineveh but we are heading to Tarshish. We need to go to Nineveh! Do you understand me?

How can you worship a god that screams for blood all the time? A god who wants to purge his world of sin, but can't do the job no matter how many lives he takes. A god who sees the only way to solve a problem, or get his message across is to destroy? A god that plays with the lives and sufferings of his own (see the Book of Job.) The god of this mythology is cruel.

Cruel because you don't understand or know Him.
I will give you a lesson CG so take note:

The only way to make a true covenant is through the spilling of blood. Why? Because blood is the symbol of Life and Death which are two of the ultimate things that God has power over. Jesus gave Life through Death by His blood on the cross and He made a new covenant with God because Adam had broken the first.

This is why virginity is important to God. Because when a hymen is broken, a covenant is made between a man and a woman.

I can go on but I believe you can see where I am going.