Not the Haitian flag

[Liberator]

First of all “Isnaldgyal” if there was not a Sidney Poitier we would still be Bahamians. I respect Mr. Poitier a lot but don’t put him at the levels of Sir Lynden O. Pindling, Gerald Cash and Milo Butler. I know you never mentioned these fine folks but nothing would have changed if Mr. Poitier was never borned but if there wasn't a Pindling, Cash or Butler we would probably be in a horrible state. If we managed to get our independence in the first place. And think, if Mr. Poitier’s father wasn’t a Haitian he would have more than likely be a Bahamian. The only thing that would have changed is that his last name would have been different. God had a plan to create Sidney Poitier regardless of who his parents are dummy.
Second of all why should Bahamians work side-by-side with Haitian refugees cutting crass for a living. I would like to see YOU cut grass and afford to pay for a mortgage, a light bill, a phone bill, insurance, buy groceries, clothes, pay a car-note and manage to afford miscellaneous things. Don’t be a fool. Haitians don’t pay a mortgage they squat on other peoples land. Thy don’t pay phone or light bills they hookup illegally. Why wouldn’t they feel content cutting grass. Especially if that’s all they qualify for. That leads me to point number three.
Third of all most Haitians can’t read or write. And most of them can’t speak English. You need to stop fabricating. It’s obvious to me that you are a Haitian National trying to under-mind the Bahamian readers of this forum. And if your not a Haitian you must have a Haitian background. And that money you said they work hard for is only to bring the rest of their families to the Bahamas. Please believe they don’t want to stay in Haiti. And why should we look to Haitians for an example? They should be looking to us for example. They are the ones running from their own failure. And who are they running to? Us!!! A lesson for you to learn. THINK CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU CRITICIZE BAHAMIANS!!!

[ronnie]

tell them liberator

bahamians have got to stand together on this most volatile issue. because u better believe, the haitians ,are united.

[Rory]

Pindling and his government ran this country into the ground, with coruption & drugs. No respect for him or any others in the government. Ofcourse every government we had since his hasnt been any better! Bad management and unintelligent people in the government are what is keeping this a forth world country.

Alot of bahamians are happy with the way the bahamas (I should emphasize Nassau) is, thats because they simply dont know any better, or dont care.

Originally posted by Liberator
First of all “Isnaldgyal” if there was not a Sidney Poitier we would still be Bahamians. I respect Mr. Poitier a lot but don’t put him at the levels of Sir Lynden O. Pindling, Gerald Cash and Milo Butler. I know you never mentioned these fine folks but nothing would have changed if Mr. Poitier was never borned but if there wasn't a Pindling, Cash or Butler we would probably be in a horrible state. If we managed to get our independence in the first place. And think, if Mr. Poitier’s father wasn’t a Haitian he would have more than likely be a Bahamian. The only thing that would have changed is that his last name would have been different. God had a plan to create Sidney Poitier regardless of who his parents are dummy.
Second of all why should Bahamians work side-by-side with Haitian refugees cutting crass for a living. I would like to see YOU cut grass and afford to pay for a mortgage, a light bill, a phone bill, insurance, buy groceries, clothes, pay a car-note and manage to afford miscellaneous things. Don’t be a fool. Haitians don’t pay a mortgage they squat on other peoples land. Thy don’t pay phone or light bills they hookup illegally. Why wouldn’t they feel content cutting grass. Especially if that’s all they qualify for. That leads me to point number three.
Third of all most Haitians can’t read or write. And most of them can’t speak English. You need to stop fabricating. It’s obvious to me that you are a Haitian National trying to under-mind the Bahamian readers of this forum. And if your not a Haitian you must have a Haitian background. And that money you said they work hard for is only to bring the rest of their families to the Bahamas. Please believe they don’t want to stay in Haiti. And why should we look to Haitians for an example? They should be looking to us for example. They are the ones running from their own failure. And who are they running to? Us!!! A lesson for you to learn. THINK CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU CRITICIZE BAHAMIANS!!!

[islandgyal]

Sorry, Liberator (what an ironic name), but I still beg to differ. I am not a Haitian, and my family has been here for close to a century. When I see heated remarks such as yours, I am reminded of the hated Jews during WWII who were herded into progroms in Poland before they were shipped to their various work camps .. and I think of Pigeon Cay.

I understand your frustration, and I understand the difficulty of the situation, but pure hate and venom isn't going to resolve the issue. The fact is, the Haitians have been for the past thirty years doing jobs that Bahamians would not do. Now that they are second and third-generation Haitian-Bahamians, yes ... they are beginning to work at all levels of society. Haitian-Bahamian Reno Brown was once the Central Bank Governor, for example, and now is the Chairman of Batelco.

You just can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Haitians have a lot to contribute to Bahamian society, and should be respected for same. We do have to get a grip on the legal immigration issue, yes. That's all.

[islandgyal]

One quick note ... how can we pay people $80 for a full week of work and then turn around and expect them to hang curtains and pay rent on all of the utilities you list? Same problem in the U.S., for illegal aliens coming through the unmanned borders. We say that we don't want these people here, yet we don't put our money where our mouth is to pay a decent salary for a day's work. It's a catch-22.

[ronnie]

i wonder if the plp had not come this way


rory, as a black bahamian woman. i often wonder , if the country did not attain majority rule,or independence,if we would have had , a national insurance scheme. a college of the bahamas .and many other national instituitions. after 200 or more years of white rule .i often wonder, if the plp had not come this way,if there would be a middle class today. the plp in spite of it's many acheivements and failings is still one of the best things to happen for black bahamians and i daresay white bahamians as well. even though they would never admit it. but you know rory, opinions are like heads ,everybody has one. i can tell by most,if not all of your utterances,that you are one of the dullest, knives in the drawer.

[islandgyal]

one good thing that i can say for the plp, despite all of their issues, is that they actually took the time to build middle and high schools in the out islands. until 1967, the ubp couldn't have cared less about the out islands. hell, the school that i went to back in the NINETEEN SEVENTIES on eleuthera only went to the 6th grade, after which you were on your own to farm as far as the ubp were concerned.

sir stafford sands in his time was as corrupt as lynden pindling, and only the change in command prevented sir stafford from being rung up on the same kind of commission of inquiry that buried pindling.

those who do not remember their history are doomed to repeat it.

a white bahamian

[Haitianboy]

wow...I put a search in google for Haitian Flag gif and got this...and it saddens me everytime I read or post about what people think of us Haitians and these are the kind of things I read...It really does...Devide and conquer is the name of the game, the European priest that came up with the idea of kidnapping slaves from Africa and bringing them to the West Indies is a genius...he was the bright light the Europeans were looking for and they certainly did their job...look how the world has children of Africa haiting one another and bickering over land that they were brought to...

I can only defend my country and my people, I am sure there's some truth to all sides, but being a Haitian born I can only hurt from hearing the thoughts expressed by people who's only differences is that they were stolen by another country then my ancestors were...

For those that say if Haitians are so proud why they dont go back to their own country...I ask first of all do you live in the U.S. I was born in Haiti in 1977 and have lived here in the U.S. most of my life...I never realized the situation in Haiti until the late 90's when I was there the country was so good there was never a thought of leaving...but as I grow up I understand now why people would leave everything they love behind them and risk their lives to go another place...it's called human nature and instincts...our instincts are survival...Africans especially are thick skinned and we prove to survive through anything...

Well my country is in bad shape politically, financially and is in the process of being squeezed into nothing by bigger sharks who further our struggle by bringing the world into things such as globerization...we are on a standstill where there's no jobs and a once very ambitious group of people who always seeked education now find themselves unable to get that same level of education thus the world think Haitians not being able to read or write is somethign that comes from not willing to learn...Haitian people in the U.S at least have proven to be one of the most ambitious group of Diasporas who come here with barely anything and make something of themselves quickly...but would that grant us worldwide recognition and make other countries really understand our problems at home? no.

No because the big fishes always had a problem with us from the beginning...perhaps it's because of our rich history and now we have to pay for how we opened the eyes of the Caribbean and South America. We have contributed to almost every country's fight for liberation in the Western Hemisphere and now that the front man has fallen behind and needs the help of his neighbors and brothers and sisters to catch up again, we are being shuned as undeducated and treated as slaves...we opened the gate to freedom only to find ourselves right back into slavery again but this time by our own...those that we seek refuge from see themselves better and wish we'd stop landing on their doorsteps begging for food and shelter...

Only in Cuba do I see Haitians being welcomed with arms that are open...perhaps is because Fidel Castro who knows history and the significance of my country to his own and what we have done to help all, has educated his own people to the point where we can be accepted...Fidel's acceptance of Haitans has led to our creole to be officially the second language of Cuba and our culture celebrated like the Cuban culture itself...Africans are Africans no matter where we landed or were brought to...to understand why Haiti is in the state it is is to understand Caribbean history and the Americas...once understood, those that have eyes that are opened will maybe appreciate and understand why things are the way they are and only then can we really accept each other as brothers and sisters...

We are all the same...history has made our situations different...instead of screaming to Haitians to go home, try to understand why they are there...when our country was labeled the Pearl of the West Indies, we welcomed all with open arms no matter what their situation now we are the Pail of the West Indies, I have to read threads like these...I only hope God has a plan...I have a strong feeling we are not in this situation for nothing...being Africa's first born, perhaps it's God's plan to spread us across the Antilles and have us truly blend into other African Caribbean cultures and one day be one culture again...though we are devided,maybe just maybe we have one last chance to redeem ourselves and not be conquered...

I will never see my country respected and happy again for the rest of my lifetime, but while I'm living I will always be opened minded and teach those that want to know what being a Haitian really means and what we have given to the world...dont underestimate the people that cut your grass, for they have pay dues for you to own that grass...in the meantime thank you for allowing me to join your forum and post my thoughts and feelings...

1 love

[Delroy]

Well said brother.
Welcome to Bahamas Issues and please don't let this be your last post.

[CG]

Well said brother.
Welcome to Bahamas Issues and please don't let this be your last post.

I echo Delroy's comments. I to hope to see more postings by you.

[Haitianboy]

Well said brother.
Welcome to Bahamas Issues and please don't let this be your last post.

because I study my history and the history of the Caribbean, I have no prejudice in me...we use to be proud to influence and fight together when we were fighting for freedom...now that we live in a world of our people being free, the dividing methods used by those that enslaved us is showing it's damage...

I remember in that movie Roots, the slaves almost took the ship by learning each other's languages and standing together...this is so similar today except we are not slaves...instead of looking at people coming to your home as taking over, you should embrace them and learn from their culture...not because I am one, but I know Haitian culture is so rich and it's one of the closest we have to our ancestry today outside of Africa...the Cubans opened themselves to it and it makes their culture even more so pure and beautiful...combining our cultures is like putting a puzzle together, those that are blind wont see the strenght and beauty in it...

Until I am in zion...I will keep my eyes open and always embrace my brothers here on this earth and love them as I love myself...that's just me...and I am not saying this because I am Haitian, this goes to all...love has no color, religion, or nationality

[CG]

because I study my history and the history of the Caribbean, I have no prejudice in me...we use to be proud to influence and fight together when we were fighting for freedom...now that we live in a world of our people being free, the dividing methods used by those that enslaved us is showing it's damage...

Who are those who would enslave us?

[Haitianboy]

Who are those who would enslave us?

unless I have it all backwards, I do beleive we blacks from Africa were once slaves and ruled by Europeans from different nations 400 and something years ago up till last century...did I miss somethign??? corrrect me please if I'm not accurate

[CG]

unless I have it all backwards, I do beleive we blacks from Africa were once slaves and ruled by Europeans from different nations 400 and something years ago up till last century...did I miss somethign??? corrrect me please if I'm not accurate

I notice that you said "once." That is true but it is not true now. As far as I know my ancestors were slaves to Rome "once." But that was yesterday and yesteday is gone. Remember the past, yes by all means but don't use it as an excuse for any short comings. Haiti has failed as a nation. Most of Africa has failed as well. Reason - they just can't get rid of the chains (self imposed) on their minds. If they stay that way they are easy pickings for the greedy and unscrupulous - who come in all colours.

It is self-evident that both of these nations have great potential. But they have got to get over this thing and they have to stop electing people (of their own colour) who keeps selling them out. The real "slave traders" of today are those people. Be angry (as I am) at them and not the ghosts of the past.

Where are the good guy's in the countries I mentioned above? There must be millions of them? Where are they?

I am a genuine white guy! I would love to dialogue with you some more on this subject, in this thread. Perhaps you can enlighten me and I can enlighten you. I am willing to listen to you as I am sure you are to listen to me. Notice that I did not say "your side or my side" because, at the end of the day, we are both on the same side. Come to think of it there are no sides, just a big mess up of misunderstands and hurt feeling - enough to go around. Lets see if we can get rid of some.

[Haitianboy]

I notice that you said "once." That is true but it is not true now. As far as I know my ancestors were slaves to Rome "once." But that was yesterday and yesteday is gone. Remember the past, yes by all means but don't use it as an excuse for any short comings. Haiti has failed as a nation. Most of Africa has failed as well. Reason - they just can't get rid of the chains (self imposed) on their minds. If they stay that way they are easy pickings for the greedy and unscrupulous - who come in all colours.

It is self-evident that both of these nations have great potential. But they have got to get over this thing and they have to stop electing people (of their own colour) who keeps selling them out. The real "slave traders" of today are those people. Be angry (as I am) at them and not the ghosts of the past.

Where are the good guy's in the countries I mentioned above? There must be millions of them? Where are they?

I am a genuine white guy! I would love to dialogue with you some more on this subject, in this thread. Perhaps you can enlighten me and I can enlighten you. I am willing to listen to you as I am sure you are to listen to me. Notice that I did not say "your side or my side" because, at the end of the day, we are both on the same side. Come to think of it there are no sides, just a big mess up of misunderstands and hurt feeling - enough to go around. Lets see if we can get rid of some.

Actually I welcome and agree with all you say...The way you see things I have alot to enlighten you about and you seem to have alot of things to make me think as well...first please understand my posts here were to speak as an African that we are divided....If you hear me crying it's because I am crying that we black people will never see eye to eye...

You said one thing though that does disturbe me and I had this discussion with a young white girl that I am real cool with now after we talked about this. True slavery is over and you are not directly responsible and I would never hold you to be responsible or any white person today for what happened generations ago...but dont dismiss slavery as to say it has no affect on the world as we know it today...the end of slavery is not that long ago as we act, it's going to take another century or even more until we can wash the memories and the evidence of what's done to us. When we talk about slavery that's a discussion that would need another thread within itself because it's too many issues involved...just like Europeans went to Africa and stole black people remember alot of us were sold by our own tribesmen and men from other tribes...so it's not even just a color issue, we were sold and captured by people with the same complexion...so if you want to discuss what i think slavery has done to use in detail, I would gladely have this dicussion with you and get your feedback but that's for another thread...

As for Haiti, Haiti failed for many reasons...there are many political setbacks to our status...there's only one group of Haitians left that can save Haiti and I say this to my peers, that's us the Diasporas...the country is under so much confusion there are so many issues, and again some leading to the very beginning...trust me man, if you know the problems black people face in this world, you will see the scars of 400 years of supression...we can discuss it...but like I told you, get it out your mind that I am using this as excuses...I notice whenever you have a discussion with a caucasian and you say slavery you get branded with using that as an excuse, it's like you like us to forget and get over something that dictates everything about us...Europeans came to the colonies they were not stolen from their roots...I am African and I dont even know what part of Africa to claim because I have no idea where I come from...I can say yeah I am from Africa, but how stupid do I feel if someone ask me what part...that's when I shut up...

This thread was me trying to get in touch with people that were complaining about Haitians coming to their country...I want people to understand that we humans beings have a instinct for survival...and we Africans have proven that instinct over time so this Haitian migration they are seeing is not something to cause them to hate but rather try to understand...I would really do like to exchange with you though on another level...I too beleive today we are all in the same gang, same clan, same team, same boat...so let's talk