Bishop Greene’s Comments – Part 1 - By Apostle Cedric Moss

[Cedric Moss]

Bishop Greene’s Comments – Part 1

By Apostle Cedric Moss

July 17, 2003

Last week, comments attributed to Bishop Samuel Greene regarding homosexual marriages were reported in our local press. It was reported that Bishop Greene threatened to become the first live Guy Fawkes if our parliament passed a law legitimizing homosexual marriages. Today, I begin part one of a three part commentary on Bishop Greene’s comments and the issue of homosexual marriages.

Irresponsible Words
Clearly these comments attributed to Bishop Greene indicate that he is very passionate about his objection to homosexual marriage. Many people are. However, it is irresponsible for anyone to even allude to burning down parliament (even if said in jest) if it passes an objectionable law. It is even more irresponsible if the person is a minister of the Gospel.

“Guy Fawkes” Aside
Putting aside the “Guy Fawkes” comment he is said to have made, Bishop Greene is to be commended for being courageous and taking a clear, Biblical stand on the issue of homosexual marriages. Likewise, Archbishop Drexel Gomez is to be commended for his clear stand.

While it is always regretful when people rightfully object in wrong ways, we must not lose sight of the substantive issue. In the present case, the issue is this: Homosexuality in none of it shades or forms can be supported Biblically. This does NOT mean that homosexuals are to be demeaned. Not at all…Christ died for them as well and they are precious in His sight.

Beyond Tolerance
Christ calls us to do more than tolerate homosexuals; He actually calls us to love them as He did. Does this mean that we should condone the sin of homosexuality? No, we cannot do so Biblically. Nor does it mean that we do not call homosexuals to repentance…we do and we must. The reality is that we are to love ALL people and help them to know God’s abounding grace through Christ’s sacrifice on the cross.

Jesus Christ was able to love and relate to the worst of sinners of His day without condoning their sin and He is our example. In the case of a woman who had been married 5 times and was evidently “shacking up” with a yet another man, Jesus saw beyond her sin and without condemnation offered her forgiveness and eternal life (see John 4:1-42). He was not antagonistic towards sinners and neither should we be.

Moving Ancient Boundaries
But what is this ongoing discussion about homosexual marriage really about? It is about ancient boundaries and we are warned to not move them (see Proverbs 22:28). Boundaries that keep moving make life unpredictable, unstable, and unsafe. The ancient boundaries of the institution of marriage are these: a man and a woman. Nations like Canada, who believe they are wise and enlightened by moving the ancient boundary stones of marriage, will soon see their self created dilemma and folly.

Here is the million-dollar question: Exactly where should these “learned” courts and “wise” nations put down the stakes for the new marriage boundaries? Those currently lobbying for change only want to include 2 other combinations; 2 men and 2 women. But how can they “in fairness” establish the new marriage boundaries to exclude all the other combinations that some other people want. These other people are using the same cry of non-discrimination and equal rights so why not include their various combinations as well?

Marriage Combinations
This desire being expressed by some to expand the definition and constitution of marriage reminds me of the Cable Bahamas radio commercial about the various combinations of Premium Channels one can get. The customer in the commercial is being offered dozens of channels to choose from and combine and he out of the clear inquires about having popcorn as an option. After being turned down he remarks that he perhaps needs to combine his popcorn request with a request for butter and then Cable Bahamas might give it!

As irrelevant as this illustration seems, upon closer inspection, you will see it really is not. For those countries that go down the slippery slope of trying to make homosexual relations seem normal, they will be faced with many “marriage popcorn” requests. I shudder to think what the result will be because the grounds for these “marriage popcorn” requests will be the same faulty basis upon which some courts and nations have sanctioned homosexual relations/marriage.

Click Here for Part Two


Apostle Cedric Moss serves as Senior Pastor at Kingdom Life World Outreach Centre. Comments and feedback may be directed to: apostle@kingdom-life.org

[mandaman]

Bishop Greene's comment regarding Gay laws being debated and?or passed in Parliament is a typical indication of the intolerance ofr minorities that has existed in our society from time immerorial.
In my view to threaten parliamentarians in that manner is nothing short of terrorism. Parliamentarian should not be put in fear of their lives for any laws they might debate or pass in Parliament, the People's Place. For Bishop Greene to try and intimidate our elected officials in this manner should be illegal and some form of police action should be taken Our Parliamentarians have every right to ask the Authorities to protect them from threats like this.

[jeromect]

REMOVED

[classicromeo22]

If the Christian council president could threaten to blow up Parliament and get away with it, I would like to see the law try to arrest the average man on the street for the same act.

[Vicky]

It's plan and simple bishiop greene is terrorist and promotes terrorism equal to the taliban. Soon he will say he will blow up Parliament if they don’t out law Rastafarian, Muslims, Jews, and any other non-Christian way of life. Using his version of Christianity as his guide.
It is well documented that Christ’s teachings undermined the religious leaders of his time. For what he taught simply took away all their power and wealth. If you follow his teachings let me type it again his teachings there would be no church no church leaders, No religious judges. You see Christ made redundant the laws of the Old Testament when he said Love God above all things Love thy neighbor as thy self and do unto other as you would have them do unto you. Do these things and here full fill all the laws of the prophets?
The Christian leaders fear this statement to this day for they know if all the people followed these simple rules they would be out of power and out of a job. I challenge any Christian to show me where Christ said build churches and let the people around them do with out. Look at the huge churches look at the poverty around them. I don’t mean in just a few blocks either.
If Christ had the money in his hand to build a church and saw people in need of better homes what would he do?
If some one gave Christ a car (illustration for this day and age) and he saw some one walking with a heavy load what would he do?
If Christ was invited to a fancy dinner and walked past hungry children to get there what would he do?
If he was given a suit of fine cloths and saw a woman in rags what would he do?
Now that is Christian thinking.

Another thing Christ taught judge not lest you be judged by the same rules you judge others. If you say some one must live by the Old Testament you must do the same and that dose not mean you can pick and choose the laws you want to follow you must follow all of them. There is no one in the Bahamas that can live up to that.

He with out sin cast the first stone another teaching of Christ. Now this is one that needs a lot of thought and yet none at all think about it. This 1 again takes away the power of the religious leaders then and now. Because they cannot even point a finger at some one or group, unless for their whole life they have committed no sin no sin at all.

[Vicky]

When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. ... End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them.

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord - Lev.1: 9. The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual cleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.

4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I may have been funny but this is no joke please answer by numbers.

Vicky

[Neo]

I could tell from your anguish that you were in desperate need of answers and the qualified Apostle is treating your valid questions as though they are rhetorical so I thought to help you.

Answer to Q1: Please warn your neighbours when you are having a BBQ.

Answer to Q2: Retain a lawyer/agent to negotiate for you - they are the real experts on this subject.

Answer to Q3: Its all in the walk and the attitude. If a woman is excessively grouchy and walks a little butch but normally walks sexy, its that time of the month.

Answer to Q4: This is misinformation based on a convention. Although one is advised not to, you can own Canadians, they're just a whole lot more expensive and don't work as hard as Mexicans.

Answer to Q5: No! You must take him to the nearest non denominational, pentacostal, fundamentalist church and let them do so. The nearest one is probably just across the street from you, next to or above a bar room.

Answer to Q6: It depends on the facts. Eating shellfish is a lesser abomination for a homosexual man but equally abominable for a lesbian as there is no real distinction between the acts.

Answer to Q7: The man made invention (i.e. reading glasses) compensates adequately for God's defect - so approach on!

Answer to Q8: Live by the trimmer, die by the trimmer - you're slipping on your Old Testament with this one.

Answer to Q9: What kind of gloves??

Answer to 10: Still too expensive and going to too much trouble. What you do is spread untruths about your uncle and his immediate family and kill their characters and reputation like all other descent christian loving families do.

OK?

[Truthseeker]

Very interesting questions Vicky and damn funny too!

This is what I keep telling people who use the bible as a moral compass for their lives. Extracting from its pages those passages which they have deemed expedient and ignoring those which are not. It makes no sense at all. I am quite certain you could find the same amount of nonsense in the New Testament. The bible does not allow for rehabilitation of offenders just punishment, but you christians keep insisting on using its guidelines for daily living in the 21 century.. This is what happens when you have unknown authors in unknown parts of the world writing words spoken by unknowable gods.

Vicky don't be surprise if you do not receive a response from the christians and if indeed they do, expect to hear more foolish rationalization and excuses from them for their 'holy bible'.

[Neo]

In defense of Christians and Christianity: While many Chrisitians tend to read the bible out of context, its value far outweighs its contradictions. Like you, Truthseeker, many of us realize that biblical passages should not all be taken literally and used to bash others over the head but I must say, if only as a book of sacred Hebrew stories, passed down through generations, its a damn inspirational read and provides answers to many of life's difficult circumstances.

Jesus was a Jew, let us remember, never a Christian. He lived a life, short though it was, pointing out the folly of the Old Testament - for which he was killed. Even if it is impossible for your mind to embrace ressurection, the stories of his life provide truth and revolutionary freedom from those aspects of religion which bind and oppress the human spirit. He is the example of God in action which is what life should be about as opposed to religious rhetoric. Love your neighbour, feed the hungry, rehabilitate the prisoner etc., are things he stood for.

So what then is truth, Truthseeker? I know what it is for me and I am in hot pursuit of it without denouncing even the God of others because that is anti-love. And, I think the point at which we should all meet is Love. And, for me, God is love - oops thats in that Bible. Truth is lived not known!

[Vicky]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Neo
[B]In defense of Christians and Christianity: While many Chrisitians tend to read the bible out of context, its value far outweighs its contradictions. Like you, Truthseeker, many of us realize that biblical passages should not all be taken literally and used to bash others over the head but I must say, if only as a book of sacred Hebrew stories, passed down through generations, its a damn inspirational read and provides answers to many of life's difficult circumstances.

Jesus was a Jew, let us remember, never a Christian. He lived a life, short though it was, pointing out the folly of the Old Testament - for which he was killed. Even if it is impossible for your mind to embrace ressurection, the stories of his life provide truth and revolutionary freedom from those aspects of religion which bind and oppress the human spirit. He is the example of God in action which is what life should be about as opposed to religious rhetoric. Love your neighbour, feed the hungry, rehabilitate the prisoner etc., are things he stood for.

So what then is truth, Truthseeker? I know what it is for me and I am in hot pursuit of it without denouncing even the God of others because that is anti-love. And, I think the point at which we should all meet is Love. And, for me, God is love - oops thats in that Bible. Truth is lived not known! [


Neo you have said a mouth full. I just can’t stand when I hear these Bible pounding people try to pound the heads of people that are different.
I took a lot of time to study about and in the Bible and Christianity.
What I discovered was these Bible pounding people use what they want so as to make a profit and keep them selves in a position of power using the average persons ignorance.
When someone stands up to them and points out as I have they usually back down or they play the blind game and say you wrong anyway.
I am 1 of the ones born different. In 4th grade I remember the girls in the doorway playing with Barbie dolls and the boys playing hit below the knee in the play area. I Knew I was different.
I grew up knowing I was different but had no one to talk to no one. I was attracted to girls but I wanted to be a girl. I had even kissed a guy and it was repulsive to me so I was not gay. But what was wrong with me. I met a women whom I fell in love with I am married to this day. I told her how I felt before we even got to involved about my feelings.
With her at my side we started to find out what this thing was. Med Drs and Psychiatrists
Turns out I have gender disphoria. I am born with it. Turns out it is not uncommon about 10% of any population have some sort of gender identity issue. Medical term to describe me, a heterosexual gender disphoic male. Term you can understand I am a lesbian with different plumbing. As a Dr. put it your sex is between your legs but your gender is between your ears and they don’t match. There is neither cure nor treatment to make the mind match the body. But with the help of modern science the body is starting to match the mind.

Should my children or I have no place in my homeland because of some ones beliefs/faith?

What happens if I go for all that is possible to correct the situation (Sex change). Is my wife no longer married to me? Is she no longer entitled to what we have worked for our whole lives as a spouse when I die if I have the surgery? She has told me countless times we are in this together just yesterday as a matter of fact.
Politically correct term is Transgender or pre op transsexual or post op transsexual.

If this is not a choice for me then it is not a choice for Gays Lesbians and Bisexuals

Vicky

[Neo]

It took me a while to digest but I understand what you've said although I could never understand your circumstance.

From a spiritual context, I think it is safe to assume that God loves you just as you are. I know you probably don't want to hear the cliches but its true.

Another truth is that there is probably something 'different' about everyone, at least you have identified yours and have options, and have a partner at your side who understands. You should find some comfort in this and this should be the source of your strength.

Life is about choices and love endures all things.

[Truthseeker]

Neo

I agree with you that this should be about love and tolerance towards each other despite our differences. Of course I don't share your views on god and spirituality. Perhaps Jesus was an Roman-Jew the product of a rape. Who knows. If we are going to use the bible as a tool of learning at least it should make sense and not be filled with such plagiarizisms. Unlike you Neo, I can not defend christians when they have so much dislike for person like me.

[Vicky]

Here is something that was told to me by a Navaho shaman. It made me think about my transgender issues.
The Creator of Life in all wisdom made night and day. But there is a time when the sun has not risen yet it is still light a light mixed with darkness. There is a time when the sun has set but there is still light a darkness mixed with light.

[Neo]

I get you Vicky. And truthseeker my real point is that I am a Christian, convicted to love everyone without discrimination and distinction.

[Delroy]

Hi Guys,
I was a little busy this week but I am back to bring a little light to this discussion.

First to Vicky:

Welcome to Bahamas Issues.
After reading your posts I prayed and asked the Father to give me the right words to say to you. Your situation is one that only God can deliver you from. My heart aces for you and I cant help it but I don't think that me feeling sorry for you will be of any comfort to you.

I am a Christian! Why?
Because Jesus revealed Himself to me? I feel fortunate because I know that being chosen by God is the greatest gift a man can get. Knowing God is the greatest of all pursuits. Why? Because God has revealed this truth to me.

Why hasn't God revealed the truth about your life to you? The Bible says that "You have not because you ask not." But you cant ask anything of God and expect to receive it without first believing in Him in faith without doubting. "For he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord." James 1:6-7

Are you ready for God to reveal the truth to you? Every question you have about your life God can answer right now. Do you want the answers? All you have to do is believe. If you think that I am trying to convert you the answer is Yes! Because I know that it is God that guided you here and now its my turn to plant the seeds of truth and righteousness within your heart.

Your questions for Apostle Cedric Moss are not very hard because I know the answers to them. Because the questions were for Apostle Moss and you seek answers to the more important questions in your life I will sum it all up in this:
All those laws were for the Jews alone and not us. I am sure that Apostle Moss will elaborate more on this.

Now to more important things:
You said:

I took a lot of time to study about and in the Bible and Christianity.

Before God saved me I thought that I or anyone else who have the ability to read could understand the Bible; I was wrong. The Bible is more than just words written in black and white but there is something spiritual about it. The Bible contains the mind of God Himself and to understand it you must have the Spirit of God within you to teach you. Many people have access to the Bible but the wisdom of God is revealed only to those He has chosen to reveal it to. Why? Because He is God.
These are the steps to understanding the Bible:
1. Repent of your sins.
2. Ask Jesus to come into your life and save you.
3. Believe He will.

Simple! Isn't it?
And would you believe to some people that looks like the hardest thing in the world to do and to others; the most ridiculous.
You might ask: "Why do I need to understand the Bible?"
Because all the answers to every question that you have or will every have is contained within it.

You say that you sought advice about yourself from Meds, Drs and Psychiatrists but did you ask God? He created you so He knows all about you.

There is neither cure nor treatment to make the mind match the body.

Is that what the doctor told you?
My questions are:
What gender is your spirit?
Can a man give birth?
What sickness God cannot heal?

As a Christian, I can only point you in the direction God wants you to go.
God has a way of solving the most complicated puzzles but in the mids of complicated things mans first desire is to give up. Besides problems that we don't know how to solve there are questions that we don't even know how to ask. Only God knows all things. So what must do when I meet someone like yourself Vicky? If I was still a babe in the faith my first thoughts would have been to tell you the same thing that Neo said.

But you see, in the Kingdom of God Vicky, there are foot soldiers and there are Navy Seals. Foot soldiers take prisoners, Navy Seals don't. I take no prisoners and I am not going to allow the enemy to deceive me or you by telling you that something is ok when its not.

Yes! God does love you just as you are but the wages of sin is still death. God proves His love to us by showing us the wrong in our life. I have noting to do but the same.

He brought you here so I know that He hasn't given up on you.